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#Post#: 119457--------------------------------------------------
Re: Marcus Smith out of Italy game
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: February 1, 2024, 10:15 am
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--- Quote from: Brown Bottle link ---
>
> Form got them into the squad but no coach is then going to
ignore what they see in training.
>
--- End Quote ---
How do you know?
I'd say it's much more likely that a lot of coaches will go with
the players they know, far ahead of what they see in training.
#Post#: 119458--------------------------------------------------
Re: Marcus Smith out of Italy game
DIR By: Yareet
Date: February 1, 2024, 10:20 am
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--- Quote from: MaidstoneQuin link ---
>
> The thing that gets me most is SB saying he will pick on form
yet that's really not the case.
>
> Alex is one of the form 8s, Fin Smith is arguably the most fit
in form fly half available, Furbank is playing far better than
Steward, and Muir/Roebuck/Feyi-Waboso have demonstrated better
form than Daly.
>
> I'd have probably preferred Pearson at 6, or Ben Curry, but
that's just a preference.
>
--- End Quote ---
That seems to indicate you'd like a backline of Mitchell, F
Smith, one of M/R/F-W, Dingwall, Slade, Freeman, Furbank.
That's 77 caps - of which Slade has 57. That's a very
inexperienced back line. If it goes well, Borthwick is a genius
who can instantly see who can take their club form into a Test
match. If we lose to Italy, Borthwick will be hung out to dry.
I like the mix of experience and debutants with more newbies on
the bench. Fold them into the team gently rather than hurling
them all in together.
However, I'm not sure why Daly's there. We need another
playmaker and it isn't Steward at 15. Plus, a left peg is always
useful. But Slade answers both of those questions so with
Freddie at 15 and Slade at 13, I can see an opportunity to play
a newbie on both wings.
Given you'd got the big unit in Freeman, I'd probably say a
out-andout speedster.
#Post#: 119459--------------------------------------------------
Re: Marcus Smith out of Italy game
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: February 1, 2024, 10:41 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: RodneyRegis link ---
>
> How do you know?
>
> I'd say it's much more likely that a lot of coaches will go
with the players they know, far ahead of what they see in
training.
>
--- End Quote ---
How do I know? Because I don't think Borthwick is stupid.
Obviously any previous selections will be better known but I
find it incredibly hard to believe that he would ignore what he
sees in front of him.
There have been form players in the past who've got into
wider/final squads but don't get picked. Sometimes this happens
under consecutive coaches which suggests the problem is more
likely the player than the coaches, despite their "obvious
class" at club level.
#Post#: 119460--------------------------------------------------
Re: Marcus Smith out of Italy game
DIR By: MaidstoneQuin
Date: February 1, 2024, 10:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> That seems to indicate you'd like a backline of Mitchell, F
Smith, one of M/R/F-W, Dingwall, Slade, Freeman, Furbank.
>
> That's 77 caps - of which Slade has 57. That's a very
inexperienced back line. If it goes well, Borthwick is a genius
who can instantly see who can take their club form into a Test
match. If we lose to Italy, Borthwick will be hung out to dry.
>
> I like the mix of experience and debutants with more newbies
on the bench. Fold them into the team gently rather than hurling
them all in together.
>
> However, I'm not sure why Daly's there. We need another
playmaker and it isn't Steward at 15. Plus, a left peg is always
useful. But Slade answers both of those questions so with
Freddie at 15 and Slade at 13, I can see an opportunity to play
a newbie on both wings.
>
> Given you'd got the big unit in Freeman, I'd probably say a
out-andout speedster.
>
--- End Quote ---
I wouldn't have been against that backline. Steward is the
Jordon Pickford of rugby in a sense, in that at international
level he hasn't really had too many shockers and has been fairly
stable, which is probably why he is keeping Furbank out.
It still might not be a problem though, IF the subs are given a
decent introduction. 20/25m of Smith and possibly Feyi-Waboso
coming on for Daly/Steward, with either Freeman or Daly covering
FB.
#Post#: 119461--------------------------------------------------
Re: Marcus Smith out of Italy game
DIR By: T-Bone
Date: February 1, 2024, 11:12 am
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On the question of coaches going on what they see in camp, I
guess it depends on what they're doing in camp.
If they're running endless kick chase drills and generic
exercises, certain players probably won't shine. If you're
running more unstructured, live game scenarios, others will be
better
Borthwick was an average, uninspiring player and captain and I
sadly have no reason to think his coaching will prove to be any
different
#Post#: 119463--------------------------------------------------
Re: Marcus Smith out of Italy game
DIR By: Mayor West
Date: February 1, 2024, 11:33 am
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Is Daley in there because the stats say we get lots of penalties
just inside our half. I can’t think of any other reason.
#Post#: 119464--------------------------------------------------
Re: Marcus Smith out of Italy game
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: February 1, 2024, 11:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: T-Bone link ---
>
> On the question of coaches going on what they see in camp, I
guess it depends on what they're doing in camp.
>
> If they're running endless kick chase drills and generic
exercises, certain players probably won't shine. If you're
running more unstructured, live game scenarios, others will be
better
>
> Borthwick was an average, uninspiring player and captain and I
sadly have no reason to think his coaching will prove to be any
different
>
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote from: Steve Borthwick link ---
>
> T-Bone is an average, uninspiring poster and supporter and I
sadly have no reason to think his punditry will prove to be any
different.
>
--- End Quote ---
[emoji57][emoji106]
#Post#: 119465--------------------------------------------------
Re: Marcus Smith out of Italy game
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: February 1, 2024, 12:00 pm
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Doesn't really work, because T-Bone has got it right. You've
watched while a decade of England coaches have picked the safe,
trusted players game after game, to utterly predictable
outcomes, and you STILL think they would tear up the starting
lineup for a great performance from a fringe player in training.
There's just no evidence to back that up whatsoever. Elliot Daly
says hi.
#Post#: 119466--------------------------------------------------
Re: Marcus Smith out of Italy game
DIR By: Quinky
Date: February 1, 2024, 12:16 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: RodneyRegis link ---
>
> Doesn't really work, because T-Bone has got it right. You've
watched while a decade of England coaches have picked the safe,
trusted players game after game, to utterly predictable
outcomes, and you STILL think they would tear up the starting
lineup for a great performance from a fringe player in training.
There's just no evidence to back that up whatsoever. Elliot Daly
says hi.
>
--- End Quote ---
To add to this, players have been picked for many games
(seemingly) on the back of one or two very good performances,
but in spite of many more average/poor ones.
#Post#: 119467--------------------------------------------------
Re: Marcus Smith out of Italy game
DIR By: Fursty
Date: February 1, 2024, 1:02 pm
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Has Borthwick ever beaten a top tier team as England coach? He’s
very conservative his style means we’re very likely to beat
Wales, Scotland and Italy and lose to France and Ireland. Same
the World Cup really - we beat who should and lost to the only
top team we played.
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