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#Post#: 118870--------------------------------------------------
Re: Marchant to Sarries
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: January 21, 2024, 5:47 pm
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--- Quote from: FishQuin link ---
>
> I think you’re confusing a premise with a hypothesis?
>
> This is a debate.
>
--- End Quote ---
I think you’re confusing the use of capital letters to represent
“things” with logic.
#Post#: 118871--------------------------------------------------
Re: Marchant to Sarries
DIR By: poorfour
Date: January 22, 2024, 2:06 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: RodneyRegis link ---
>
> Eddie was sacked the day after marchant to stade was
announced. At the beginning of December. You're telling me stade
wouldn't have waited until the usual negotiation window actually
opened?
>
--- End Quote ---
I hadn’t realised it was announced that early. But that also
means that the deal was signed before Eddie was sacked.
So, you’re expecting him to have been able to predict that a)
Eddie would be sacked, b) the new coach would be more favourable
to him, c) he would actually be able to establish himself in the
new England squad.
Or that his new employer would allow him to tear up a contract
that he had signed, and offer him another one if he wanted it
after he’d had a chance to see how the 6 Nations went - which
would have given them (and Quins, and Marchant) a lot of
uncertainty until the end of the normal recruitment period.
Squad contract negotiations don’t just involve one player and
one club. They affect other players at the club the player is
leaving (who then have to look at recruiting or promoting a
replacement) and the club the player is going to (who will have
a hole in their squad to fill and other candidates they will be
looking at if this one falls through). And all of that has to be
done with a balance of staying within the league’s salary cap
and balancing the experience, depth and quality of the squad.
Marcus was also faced with the option of going to France, and
did turn them down. But he was clearly part of Eddie’s plans and
while he wasn’t favoured at 10 by Borthwick he also knew that he
was in a strong position to be the primary England fly half in
2027.
Joe at the time was one of multiple candidates for the outside
centre shirt, and was probably in a similar position to NEv when
he decided to come to England: it seemed unlikely he’d get a
shot at playing his best position, so better to make the most of
the money on offer.
As fans, we sometimes forget what the players go through. It’s a
short career and besides a handful of superstars and Saracens
squad members it doesn’t pay so well that a player is set up for
life when they retire. Players have to have one eye on their
market value and how to make the most of it while they can. A
long run in an International squad is an option, but if it looks
like you’ll never get that run and someone will pay big bucks
for you to turn your back on it, in the same position you’d be
inclined to take it. In Marchant’s case, I’d not be at all
surprised if he goes into coaching when he retires, and the
network and range of experience he’s gained from playing in
other countries will make that transition easier.
#Post#: 118879--------------------------------------------------
Re: Marchant to Sarries
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: January 22, 2024, 3:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
To confuse logic with legend, a bird in the hand is worth two in
the bush.
#Post#: 118882--------------------------------------------------
Re: Marchant to Sarries
DIR By: Man From LA
Date: January 22, 2024, 3:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: deadlyfrom5yardsout link ---
>
> To confuse logic with legend, a bird in the hand is worth two
in the bush.
>
--- End Quote ---
Fnarr fnarr
#Post#: 118889--------------------------------------------------
Re: Marchant to Sarries
DIR By: KentQuin
Date: January 22, 2024, 7:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> Maybe he should come back to Quins, if a centralised contract
is in the offing?
>
--- End Quote ---
Perhaps, but you then potentially stunt the development of Beard
and Joseph. Marchant is a quality player but as it stands I
wouldn't see outside centre and wing as recruitment priorities
for us.
Of course, lots can change and who knows how heavily subsidised
central contracts might be.
#Post#: 118891--------------------------------------------------
Re: Marchant to Sarries
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: January 22, 2024, 7:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: RodneyRegis link ---
>
> Eddie was sacked the day after marchant to stade was
announced. At the beginning of December. You're telling me stade
wouldn't have waited until the usual negotiation window actually
opened?
>
--- End Quote ---
You've just answered your own question.
Also, I'm pretty sure there's nothing stopping foreign teams
talking to English players at any point, and that any rules in
place are simply domestic ones.
#Post#: 118896--------------------------------------------------
Re: Marchant to Sarries
DIR By: Yareet
Date: January 22, 2024, 8:57 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> I hadn’t realised it was announced that early. But that also
means that the deal was signed before Eddie was sacked.
>
> So, you’re expecting him to have been able to predict that a)
Eddie would be sacked, b) the new coach would be more favourable
to him, c) he would actually be able to establish himself in the
new England squad.
>
> Or that his new employer would allow him to tear up a contract
that he had signed, and offer him another one if he wanted it
after he’d had a chance to see how the 6 Nations went - which
would have given them (and Quins, and Marchant) a lot of
uncertainty until the end of the normal recruitment period.
>
> Squad contract negotiations don’t just involve one player and
one club. They affect other players at the club the player is
leaving (who then have to look at recruiting or promoting a
replacement) and the club the player is going to (who will have
a hole in their squad to fill and other candidates they will be
looking at if this one falls through). And all of that has to be
done with a balance of staying within the league’s salary cap
and balancing the experience, depth and quality of the squad.
>
> Marcus was also faced with the option of going to France, and
did turn them down. But he was clearly part of Eddie’s plans and
while he wasn’t favoured at 10 by Borthwick he also knew that he
was in a strong position to be the primary England fly half in
2027.
>
> Joe at the time was one of multiple candidates for the outside
centre shirt, and was probably in a similar position to NEv when
he decided to come to England: it seemed unlikely he’d get a
shot at playing his best position, so better to make the most of
the money on offer.
>
> As fans, we sometimes forget what the players go through. It’s
a short career and besides a handful of superstars and Saracens
squad members it doesn’t pay so well that a player is set up for
life when they retire. Players have to have one eye on their
market value and how to make the most of it while they can. A
long run in an International squad is an option, but if it looks
like you’ll never get that run and someone will pay big bucks
for you to turn your back on it, in the same position you’d be
inclined to take it. In Marchant’s case, I’d not be at all
surprised if he goes into coaching when he retires, and the
network and range of experience he’s gained from playing in
other countries will make that transition easier.
>
--- End Quote ---
He didn’t need to know Eddie would be sacked. Eddie was going
anyway at the exact same time as the latest Joe would become
unavailable for England.
Joe couldn’t know whether Eddie’s successor would offer more
opportunities but he also chose to deny himself the chance to
find out.
I’m far from criticising his move (it is a short career) but
just because Eddie is divisive it doesn’t mean everything is his
fault.
Especially concerning a player who has already shown he wants to
try other leagues.
#Post#: 118897--------------------------------------------------
Re: Marchant to Sarries
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: January 22, 2024, 9:14 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Marchant being messed about by Jones despite being one of
England's most consistent performers when picked would
absolutely have impacted on his decision to leave English rugby.
He'd just had an awful time of dealing with Eddie for an
extended period and probably thought his international career
had been terminally damaged, given he was at the peak of his
powers and getting repeatedly screwed over by England.
"Stay in England & pass on the French money, because you're an
England regular and getting the recognition your performances
deserve" is a much easier sell than "stay in England and
continue getting scapegoated at international level while
passing on the chance to experience the French league".
Eddie was also supposed to leave after the 2019 world cup, but
didn't, so it was hardly a guarantee he'd not stay in post.
No-one is saying it's the only reason he left, we're saying his
experiences under Eddie Jones understandably soured his view of
the future of the England team and his role in it, meaning a
huge draw for staying in England was practically a negative.
#Post#: 118898--------------------------------------------------
Re: Marchant to Sarries
DIR By: PinguthePenQuin
Date: January 22, 2024, 9:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Lots of rumours down here in Devon that Henry Slade is off to
Stade at the end of the season. Could be as Marchant's
replacement?
#Post#: 118900--------------------------------------------------
Re: Marchant to Sarries
DIR By: fatgat
Date: January 22, 2024, 11:26 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I assume Joe was out of contract and Quins couldn’t/wouldn’t
agree his terms, therefore he had to go somewhere. Maybe Sarries
couldn’t offer terms then, until they offload a few others,
which they can next year? What is the length of his French
contract? Lots of if/buts/ and maybe’s.
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