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#Post#: 116798--------------------------------------------------
Re: clubs to face squad limits under new regulations to cut
costs
DIR By: Fearless Fred
Date: December 13, 2023, 6:44 am
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--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> Because you don't know when a player will be injured and we
will need to call on one of them. We've had seasons where we had
all our hookers pick up serious injuries and we had to rely on
academy players, and seasons where which locks played was a
question of which ones were least badly crocked at any point in
time.
>
--- End Quote ---
Indeed. Remember that we weren't expecting Smith to play more
than a supporting understudy role at the start of the 17/18
season, but injury forced him to have to step up. Seems to have
done okay since...
#Post#: 116800--------------------------------------------------
Re: clubs to face squad limits under new regulations to cut
costs
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: December 13, 2023, 7:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> Because you don't know when a player will be injured and we
will need to call on one of them. We've had seasons where we had
all our hookers pick up serious injuries and we had to rely on
academy players, and seasons where which locks played was a
question of which ones were least badly crocked at any point in
time.
>
--- End Quote ---
Ok, I asked the wrong question. Why do we need one of the
biggest squads in the league and Saints have one of the
smallest? Are we rubbish at player management?
#Post#: 116802--------------------------------------------------
Re: clubs to face squad limits under new regulations to cut
costs
DIR By: Quinky
Date: December 13, 2023, 7:47 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> Because you don't know when a player will be injured and we
will need to call on one of them. We've had seasons where we had
all our hookers pick up serious injuries and we had to rely on
academy players, and seasons where which locks played was a
question of which ones were least badly crocked at any point in
time.
>
--- End Quote ---
And we've ended up playing 4th/5th choice scrum half, who then
get injured and Marcus has to step in.
#Post#: 116804--------------------------------------------------
Re: clubs to face squad limits under new regulations to cut
costs
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: December 13, 2023, 8:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> And we've ended up playing 4th/5th choice scrum half, who then
get injured and Marcus has to step in.
>
--- End Quote ---
So, really we need a squad of 80 or 90. Just in case.
#Post#: 116805--------------------------------------------------
Re: clubs to face squad limits under new regulations to cut
costs
DIR By: never sleep
Date: December 13, 2023, 8:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Brown Bottle link ---
>
> Ok, I asked the wrong question. Why do we need one of the
biggest squads in the league and Saints have one of the
smallest? Are we rubbish at player management?
>
--- End Quote ---
Saints have a partnership with Bedford. Much like we have with
Scottish.
I would guess that when you add Saints+Bedford it comes to a
similar number to Quins+Scottish
#Post#: 116806--------------------------------------------------
Re: clubs to face squad limits under new regulations to cut
costs
DIR By: never sleep
Date: December 13, 2023, 8:26 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: never sleep link ---
>
> I have just gone through our list. I think that we have:
>
> 18 Rookies - needs to be reduced by 3
> 16 Academy - needs to be reduced by 4
> 39 Senior - needs to be reduced by 4
> 2 Medical Jokers - I assume that these will still be needed
> 1 short term deal to cover World Cup
>
> [Reduced Senior squad by 1 due to Max Green. I don't know if
he is still with us.]
>
--- End Quote ---
I guess that my earlier edit due to Max Green was unnecessary.
18 Rookies - needs to be reduced by 3
16 Academy - needs to be reduced by 4
40 Senior - needs to be reduced by 5
2 Medical Jokers - I assume that these will still be needed
#Post#: 116807--------------------------------------------------
Re: clubs to face squad limits under new regulations to cut
costs
DIR By: Quinky
Date: December 13, 2023, 8:42 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Brown Bottle link ---
>
> So, really we need a squad of 80 or 90. Just in case.
>
--- End Quote ---
Is that your last word on the matter?
#Post#: 116808--------------------------------------------------
Re: clubs to face squad limits under new regulations to cut
costs
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: December 13, 2023, 8:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: never sleep link ---
>
> Saints have a partnership with Bedford. Much like we have with
Scottish.
> I would guess that when you add Saints+Bedford it comes to a
similar number to Quins+Scottish
>
--- End Quote ---
Sorry but why would you guess that? What's different about
Saints' relationship with Bedford?
#Post#: 116810--------------------------------------------------
Re: clubs to face squad limits under new regulations to cut
costs
DIR By: Fearless Fred
Date: December 13, 2023, 9:10 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I'm fairly skeptical about the proposal as reported.
The good parts/intentions
Having smaller squads overall will help towards clubs being more
financially stable
Smaller squads mean more chance that junior players will get
meaningful gametime alongside their more senior colleagues
Some of the "excess" senior players could play for the clubs in
the Championship/Prem2/whatever it's called, raising the quality
of that competition to the point where Promotion & Relegation is
meaningful
The "Wait, does this make sense?" bits
The draft for the academies, while sounding good, doesn't really
sound workable. Feel free to correct me, but I doubt all the
academy guys are housed together. Some, especially those in
their first year could still be living at home, surely. Do you
arrange for the whole family to relocate from, say Devon to
Newcastle simply because Newcastle need an academy back-rower
and the SW have a glut? Families may not want to move. Do you
want to lose a talented player from the game because they don't
at that young age want to live a couple of hundred miles away
from their family & friends?
Is this proposed "transition group" the academy or does it cover
those at the top end of the academy that are going to be playing
first team games?
The idea if there's an injury in the squad is that the youngster
fills in, rather than at current where a third/fourth choice
senior squad member slots in. You can possibly manage that for
some positions, but it's a physical risk to do that with players
in other positions like the tight 5.
The unintentional/bad outcomes
A current RWC squad is 35 for a competition that lasts a maximum
of 7 games. This proposal would have a squad of 47 (+12 rookies)
to cover for a minimum of 18 Prem games, 4 European games, 2/3
Prem Cup games, any other games such as our BaaBaas game &
Munster Game that the clubs need to keep revenue coming in etc.
Some of those players will still be playing in the
Internationals so there's a need to rest them too. That's a lot
to put on a smaller squad when already we can see how much it
takes out of the players.
You'd likely see *more* senior players moving abroad where squad
sizes are larger & they can have their game time more managed to
ensure they have a longer career. That'll hit the national side.
Some squads will still end up much stronger than others because
"there's something special(cough cough)". Now you'll have more
disparity between the stronger & weaker sides. You could even
see clubs deciding to field a deliberately weaker side against
teams they feel they've little chance of winning against,
skewing results wildly. As a hypothetical, imagine Worcester
(were they still around) decide they've little chance against
Sarries away, but they've a key European game in the Challenge
Cup the following week. Sarries have Connacht away the following
week as a comparison. With the current squad sizes, Warriors
could have probably still put out a vaguely competitive side of
mainly senior players that at least stand a chance of getting a
losing bonus point. Now with the new squad sizes they feel they
need to give up a single LBP & field a team based mainly from
the Transition group & rookies, making the game a farce.
I can applaud the theory behind this, but I think it's going to
end up as a retrograde step if it is as described.
#Post#: 116811--------------------------------------------------
Re: clubs to face squad limits under new regulations to cut
costs
DIR By: never sleep
Date: December 13, 2023, 9:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Brown Bottle link ---
>
> Sorry but why would you guess that? What's different about
Saints' relationship with Bedford?
>
--- End Quote ---
I'm guessing because I don't know the makeup of the Saints Prem
Cup squad.
Was it made up of 23 Saints players.
Or X Saints Players + Y Bedford players.
On the other hand, for Quins, the make up was 100% Quins players
(I think). But, in reality, many of those Quins players turned
out for Scottish in other games in the same competition. (there
was no rule about being cup-tied.)
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