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#Post#: 115498--------------------------------------------------
Dommers , and Danny Wilson article in todays Telegraph
DIR By: SiB
Date: November 16, 2023, 2:03 pm
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For Harlequins, the early season league leaders, and their
captain Alex Dombrandt, Saturday night’s London derby against
Saracens represents a litmus test that promises to tell us much
about both sides’ prospects for the rest of the season.
No player suffered a harder fall from grace over the summer than
Dombrandt, who started the first six games of Steve Borthwick’s
reign as England head coach at No 8 only to be unceremoniously
dropped from the World Cup squad. In his absence, his likely
opposite number Ben Earl became England’s breakout star of the
campaign.
That omission clearly still stings and he is unwilling to share
Borthwick’s rationale. “I don’t know, really. It is a hard one
to say,” Dombrandt said. “There’s always stuff that you can feel
like you’re doing well and there are things you need to improve
on. Those conversations are probably just between us. It was a
tough couple of weeks after getting the news that I wasn’t
getting in, but Quins were really good in terms of giving me
some time off to recharge the batteries.”
Coming back to Harlequins offered a chance to reset and refocus,
particularly under a rejigged coaching set-up. Danny Wilson, the
new coaching coordinator and de facto head coach, has come in
with a mandate to mesh steel with style. The club’s famous
“Bristanbul” comeback from 28-0 down in the 2021 play-off
semi-final at Ashton Gate, he argues, is unsustainable in the
long-term. “We can’t rely on scoring five tries because we have
conceded four,” Wilson said.
Yet the former Glasgow Warriors head coach is conscious of not
overstepping the mark and attempting to interfere with what he
describes as Harlequins’ “high octane” DNA as Paul Gustard once
found to his cost. “That’s the priority,” Wilson said. “That’s
why people want to come to watch Harlequins play. That’s not
going to change. What I am saying is that we have to grow other
parts to underpin and support that.”
This equally applies to Dombrandt. Rather than trying to
reinvent himself, he is trying to develop what he calls an
“all-court game” so that he can be as comfortable wrestling in
the tight exchanges as he is galloping in wide open spaces.
“Alex encapsulates what I am talking about in terms of never
going away from what you are good at,” Wilson said. “Alex is
outstanding at a certain style of rugby, but he knows the whole
package needs to develop other parts of his game as well.
“Like Quins, it is about maintaining what he’s good at, which
are those running lines, finding those opportunities in the
wider channels and getting his hands free to offload, while he
also wants to make sure he could grow his collision work and his
defence.
“You saw that at the end of the Exeter game who was the one
making the jackal to turn the ball over. He also wants to make
those hard yards into traffic and how you carry into traffic so
you win those collisions. He has worked on that as well.”
So far both Quins and Dombrandt have demonstrated a tougher
streak. Wilson highlights their ability to dog out a 23-21
victory against Bristol Bears back at Ashton Gate in the rain
and their resolute defence in the opening quarter of the home
victory against Newcastle. “We defended, defended, defended and
then went down the other end of the field and scored,” Wilson
said. “That’s a massive marker for us.”
Dombrandt, too, is near the top of most metrics from carries,
metres made post contact and carries over the gain line, even if
he claims to pay little attention to statistics. “I rely more on
feel,” he said.
It is little over five years since Dombrandt left Cardiff Met
University to join Harlequins, from where he has experienced the
dizzying highs of making his England debut and lifting the
Premiership in 2021, as well as the crushing disappointment of
missing out on the World Cup.
“Sometimes when you take a step back from it, you realise how
crazy it is where I came from and where I am now,” Dombrandt
said. “Just playing for Quins is so special. It is a club that I
grew up supporting. I am a local Croydon boy. So for me to
captain them with Steph [Lewies] being injured is such a
privilege.
“Winning the Premiership probably tops it all. It is something
that I struggle to put into words. It was the best feeling that
I have ever had. It only makes you hungrier to do it all over
again.”
‘Saracens are the measuring stick’
The faint asterisk that hangs over Harlequins’ title is
Saracens’ absence due to their punishment for salary-cap
breaches. Since they returned to the Premiership, Saracens have
won all their league encounters against Quins. Hence this derby
has a lot riding on it for the new-look Quins and Dombrandt.
“When you look at the No 8s he is coming up against in the last
week in Jasper Wiese and Ben Earl, I would put Alex in that
category and he has the capability to kick on,” Wilson said.
“He will relish those challenges and I am sure he will deliver.
Saracens have got to be the measuring stick. For us to continue
on from where we are, we have to perform against the best
sides.”
#Post#: 115499--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dommers , and Danny Wilson article in todays Telegraph
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: November 16, 2023, 2:32 pm
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I must be weird for thinking that winning the league didn't have
an asterisk because of a team missing when that team wasnt
legally paid for. We probably wouldn't have won the league if
South Africa were playing in it, or if Exeter were allowed 18
players on the pitch in the final, either.
#Post#: 115501--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dommers , and Danny Wilson article in todays Telegraph
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: November 16, 2023, 3:16 pm
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Yes, it's OUR title which has an asterisk.
#Post#: 115502--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dommers , and Danny Wilson article in todays Telegraph
DIR By: Marsile
Date: November 16, 2023, 3:24 pm
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Given Quins haven't been able to beat Saracens since they
returned, it takes a patch on the one-eye left open to still
think Harlequins would have won the league had Saracens been
playing.
It was those giants of the world game, Jackson Wray and Alex
Lewington, who combined to beat Quins at the Stoop last time out
in the league.
#Post#: 115506--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dommers , and Danny Wilson article in todays Telegraph
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: November 16, 2023, 5:12 pm
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--- Quote from: Marsile link ---
>
> Given Quins haven't been able to beat Saracens since they
returned, it takes a patch on the one-eye left open to still
think Harlequins would have won the league had Saracens been
playing.
>
> It was those giants of the world game, Jackson Wray and Alex
Lewington, who combined to beat Quins at the Stoop last time out
in the league.
>
--- End Quote ---
A team that could not exist without the extreme financial doping
is the one with the asterisk next to every victory, not the team
that won clean in the rightful absence of the cheats.
Saracens *still* have more capped players and more caps overall
than any other English side by a distance. Still benefiting from
the years of cheating that allowed them to collect and keep an
insane squad for so long.
Even given that, it's extremely arrogant of you to claim
Saracens would have denied Quins the title, given that despite
all their cheating they weren't even the defending champions -
we beat that team in the (extremely high quality) final. But
hey, I'm sure last season's 3 point defeat to a team with six
more capped players in the starting lineup, when Smith wasn't
allowed to play but Farrell was, really proves a meaningful
point
#Post#: 115516--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dommers , and Danny Wilson article in todays Telegraph
DIR By: poorfour
Date: November 17, 2023, 4:41 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> No player suffered a harder fall from grace over the summer
than Dombrandt, who started the first six games of Steve
Borthwick’s reign as England head coach at No 8 only to be
unceremoniously dropped from the World Cup squad. In his
absence, his likely opposite number Ben Earl became England’s
breakout star of the campaign.
--- End Quote ---
I am not sure I agree with that. Yes, Earl had a great RWC and
finally delivered the level of performance that makes him worth
the shirt, but I don't see him as competing with Dommers. Earl
is a versatile back rower, and a better option at 8 than Curry
was, but he's still fundamentally best used as a flanker.
Dombrandt's competition was Billy Vunipola (and Borthwick was
very clear about only having room for one specialist 8 in the
squad). Billy, returning to fitness and sitting out a ban, got
in on the strength of his track record and presumably
performance in training... and contributed very little on the
pitch apart from penalties.
It may be that Earl's performances have been enough that
Borthwick will change strategies now and stick with having 3
hybrid back rowers - a lot may depend on who he sees as the
successor to Lawes. If he goes with Martin or Chessum on the
flank, then Earl and Curry are the men in possession of the
shirt. If he goes with a more conventional back row, then I'd
expect him to look at some more conventional No 8s.
The question then is who. Willis and Barbeary are clearly in the
mix. The former has had a good start to the season (and is
keeping Earl on the flanks for Sarries); the latter has looked a
bit of a blunt instrument to me - carrying hard into traffic but
not having the impact he had in his earlier seasons.
It may also depend on Felix Jones and what he wants in an
attacking 8. Against Wales this summer, Dombrandt was finally
doing the stuff that he does for Quins - picking lines that get
him through the defence, throwing passes and offloads that put
people in space.
All a bit irrelevant if the gameplan stays focused on tactical
kicking, but I suspect that approach was predominantly chosen to
get the most out of an experienced bunch of players in a short
time for the RWC and we will see a better attacking gameplan
emerge.
#Post#: 115518--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dommers , and Danny Wilson article in todays Telegraph
DIR By: MaidstoneQuin
Date: November 17, 2023, 4:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I think Willis is the main competition so far. Alfie as
mentioned hasn't shown his Wasps form yet sadly.
Tuima from Exeter could be with an outside chance.
For the 6 nations I wouldn't be surprised if we see
4.Itoje
5.Launchbury
6. Martin
7. Earl
8. Willis
Although I think SB will want to probably go with T Curry, Earl
at 8 and Underhill.
#Post#: 115521--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dommers , and Danny Wilson article in todays Telegraph
DIR By: never sleep
Date: November 17, 2023, 5:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> If he goes with Martin or Chessum on the flank, then Earl and
Curry are the men in possession of the shirt.
>
--- End Quote ---
There has been quite a few news stories over the last week that
Curry may need to step down from international duty due to a hip
injury that will need constant management.
So - he may not be an option.
#Post#: 115524--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dommers , and Danny Wilson article in todays Telegraph
DIR By: Marsile
Date: November 17, 2023, 5:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> A team that could not exist without the extreme financial
doping is the one with the asterisk next to every victory, not
the team that won clean in the rightful absence of the cheats.
>
> Saracens *still* have more capped players and more caps
overall than any other English side by a distance. Still
benefiting from the years of cheating that allowed them to
collect and keep an insane squad for so long.
>
> Even given that, it's extremely arrogant of you to claim
Saracens would have denied Quins the title, given that despite
all their cheating they weren't even the defending champions -
we beat that team in the (extremely high quality) final. But
hey, I'm sure last season's 3 point defeat to a team with six
more capped players in the starting lineup, when Smith wasn't
allowed to play but Farrell was, really proves a meaningful
point
>
--- End Quote ---
Patch still there I see. Arrrgh, me hearty.
#Post#: 115527--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dommers , and Danny Wilson article in todays Telegraph
DIR By: Yareet
Date: November 17, 2023, 5:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: never sleep link ---
>
> There has been quite a few news stories over the last week
that Curry may need to step down from international duty due to
a hip injury that will need constant management.
> So - he may not be an option.
>
--- End Quote ---
I've only seen that dire a prediction in one place - ruck. The
other versions I've seen are the Times saying Tom might be out
until Christmas and Alex S quoted in the ruck article as "we
don't know but it could be as little as 2 weeks". I haven't seen
anybody directly quoted anywhere as saying Tom is calling time
on his Test career.
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