DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
ComeAllWithin (Harlequins Rugby)
HTML https://comeallwithin.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: ComeAllWithin Board
*****************************************************
#Post#: 114877--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Prince at XV
DIR By: poorfour
Date: November 1, 2023, 7:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Here's a thought: I expect World Rugby to extend the " tackles
below the sternum" Law change to the pro game before next season
starts.
That will significantly change the attacking game. Offloads will
be easier to do unless defences move to having one tackler
target the waist and another target the ball, and either way the
potential for playing against an unstructured defence goes up,
even at international level.
If that happens, then the game tilts a long way in favour of
Marcus's playing style. Having a fly half who can react to gaps
in real time is a potentially decisive advantage. (And having a
fly half who habitually tackles rugby league style is a
potentially decisive disadvantage).
It's also very interesting in terms of shaking up the world
order. I think some teams have already shifted in that direction
with squads picked to emphasise offloads and playing to the line
- SA with Libbok, NZ, Fiji, even Wales (and Scotland, perforce,
have been there forever) - whereas others may have a bigger
shift in style to make (Ireland are probably the most obvious
candidates).
#Post#: 114895--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Prince at XV
DIR By: Rocker
Date: November 1, 2023, 7:12 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
But why do the powers that be keep insisting on sodding about
with the game? Most of us like it perfectly fine just the way it
is, or even was 10-20 (or more), years ago. Rugby is never going
to be soccer in terms of global appeal so why not just make the
most of an enthusiastic crowd who love the game and the
difference.
I can only think that the allure of filthy lucre is enticing the
administrators into dangerous seas that will sink our game on
the rocks.
#Post#: 114896--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Prince at XV
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: November 1, 2023, 7:41 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: dr_miles link ---
>
> We've seen players like Barrett alternate between playing 10
and playing 15. Provided that it builds up his skillset, and
works for us for the games in which he plays there, then I am ok
with it.
>
--- End Quote ---
Do you mean Beauden Barrett, the guy who is 3 inches taller and
10kg heavier than Marcus?
#Post#: 114898--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Prince at XV
DIR By: dr_miles
Date: November 2, 2023, 1:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: RodneyRegis link ---
>
> Do you mean Beauden Barrett, the guy who is 3 inches taller
and 10kg heavier than Marcus?
>
--- End Quote ---
Or Damian McKenzie who is 1 inch taller and 4 kg lighter.
#Post#: 114899--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Prince at XV
DIR By: poorfour
Date: November 2, 2023, 2:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Rocker link ---
>
> But why do the powers that be keep insisting on sodding about
with the game? Most of us like it perfectly fine just the way it
is, or even was 10-20 (or more), years ago. Rugby is never going
to be soccer in terms of global appeal so why not just make the
most of an enthusiastic crowd who love the game and the
difference.
> I can only think that the allure of filthy lucre is enticing
the administrators into dangerous seas that will sink our game
on the rocks.
>
--- End Quote ---
In this instance, it’s because if they don’t change, the game
will be killed by lawsuits. Head injuries are an existential
threat to rugby. WR and the unions know that and know there is
no choice but to change - but that message has not filtered down
to the community game and fans with anything like the force and
clarity that is needed.
#Post#: 114901--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Prince at XV
DIR By: Yareet
Date: November 2, 2023, 4:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Rocker link ---
>
> But why do the powers that be keep insisting on sodding about
with the game? Most of us like it perfectly fine just the way it
is, or even was 10-20 (or more), years ago. Rugby is never going
to be soccer in terms of global appeal so why not just make the
most of an enthusiastic crowd who love the game and the
difference.
> I can only think that the allure of filthy lucre is enticing
the administrators into dangerous seas that will sink our game
on the rocks.
>
--- End Quote ---
My genuine belief is that the changes are made with the good of
the game in mind; whether (as Poorfour says) to make the game
safer or to improve the spectacle.
Some of the sodding about has (to my mind) made a positive
impact. The 50:22 law would be a good example.
Similarly (if at something of a tangent), the skills that
players have now is way beyond those of 20 years ago. Compare
the modern prop or second row to the guys of the early 2000s. NZ
committing zero handling errors amid the pressure of a World Cup
quarter final against Ireland is frankly beyond belief.
As ever, the issue comes with the disconnect between what the
administrators (a safe, entertaining game that appeals to as
many people as possible), fans (an entertaining game with
perhaps less regard for safety and ideally a win for their team)
and players/coaches (to win and - I assume - to walk away at the
end of their career with as much of their body intact as
possible) want.
Whilst those objectives overlap to some extent, finding the
sweet spot in between them all is a hell of a job.
#Post#: 114909--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Prince at XV
DIR By: Muzza
Date: November 2, 2023, 5:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Banstead Quin link ---
>
> 1. He's the most gifted 10 in the world, why would we?
--- End Quote ---
As talented as Marcus Smith is I think he will become the Carlos
Spencer of English rugby. Brilliant for Quins in domestic and
European rugby but playing in the ratify air of test rugby
(especially RWC knockout games) with a team renown for its
forwards you don't need a Spencer.
In saying that Marcus Smith is wonderful to watch and so
different from any other 10 in English rugby. But to say that
he's the most gifted 10 in the world - just how many tests has
he started for England away from Twickenham - that's how he
will be judged. We will see when England tours NZ next year.
#Post#: 114912--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Prince at XV
DIR By: poorfour
Date: November 2, 2023, 5:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Muzza link ---
>
> In saying that Marcus Smith is wonderful to watch and so
different from any other 10 in English rugby. But to say that
he's the most gifted 10 in the world - just how many tests has
he started for England away from Twickenham - that's how he
will be judged. We will see when England tours NZ next year.
>
--- End Quote ---
That is indeed how he will be judged. The question is whether
England are prepared to invest in getting the most out of him. I
(and apparently Eddie Jones, who has just weighed in on the
debate) think he needs two things:
- Game time to hone his instincts about what will and will not
work at the pace of international rugby
- Players and a system around him that enable him to use his
skillset
England since 2015 have been used to playing a system that works
by having one or two primary options on each phase and using
phase play to create space that they can go after, usually with
a contestable kick. Ford does this brilliantly, especially when
he has Farrell to manage the phases where a forward pod is
trucking it up or the ball is slow. It worked for a while but is
becoming less effective because a) defences have adapted to that
style of play because it's fairly predictable, b) England don't
have the same roster of power carriers they once had and c) the
current stock of wings are not as good at the kick chase as May
and Daly once were.
Smith's talents in attack are in a different direction. He works
best when he has multiple committed options to choose between
and can choose late which one will work, added to which he's a
genuine running threat given space and his kick passing is
better than either Farrell or Ford's especially to players who
can actually catch the ball.
England were getting bits of that working in the dying days of
Eddie's reign, but only in bursts and without a clear strategy
for what to do in the red zone. Borthwick has gone for a much
more basic attacking style. It will be interesting to see
whether the hybrid contracts prioritise maintaining that, or
building something for the future.
#Post#: 114913--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Prince at XV
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: November 2, 2023, 5:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Smith can only play to the system ordained by the coaches. If
they dont believe in building the team around him, his ethos and
his style then drop him and stop effing about trying to fit a
multi-dimensional gifted player into a system that does not and
never will suit him.
#Post#: 114924--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Prince at XV
DIR By: MaidstoneQuin
Date: November 2, 2023, 7:17 am
---------------------------------------------------------
England need to play to Marcus' strength or not pick him at all.
If the game plan is to kick possession away, persisting with
this kick/chase affair, then Ford is my pick for that.
*****************************************************
Page 3 of 5
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page