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#Post#: 114745--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Champions
DIR By: T-Bone
Date: October 29, 2023, 6:29 am
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I hate this argument that you can't win international rugby by
playing an ambitious style. Look at France. Yes, they lost the
1/4 final by a point, but they've made a success of playing
attractive rugby.
England slightly limped over the line in 2003 but that team
played some amazing rugby. Don't remember Robinson, lewsey,
Cohen, greenwood z luger, catt, balshaw, etc just being used to
kick and chase
#Post#: 114746--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Champions
DIR By: Yareet
Date: October 29, 2023, 6:47 am
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--- Quote from: T-Bone link ---
>
> I hate this argument that you can't win international rugby by
playing an ambitious style. Look at France. Yes, they lost the
1/4 final by a point, but they've made a success of playing
attractive rugby.
>
> England slightly limped over the line in 2003 but that team
played some amazing rugby. Don't remember Robinson, lewsey,
Cohen, greenwood z luger, catt, balshaw, etc just being used to
kick and chase
>
--- End Quote ---
To reinforce your point, of England’s top 10 try scorers (3-way
tie at 10), 5 are from that era: Cohen, Greenwood, Robinson,
Lewsey, Luger.
They’ve also got some of the highest tries per game stats at
around 0.5-0.6 per game.
The only modern players who come close are May (2nd and has 0.46
tries per game) and Waston (8th, 0.41)
Full disclosure, Ben Youngs is joint 10th but at only 0.16 tries
per game.
#Post#: 114747--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Champions
DIR By: DOK
Date: October 29, 2023, 6:54 am
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Have to say I've been enjoying the ITV replays of previous RWC
matches. And yes, I was a bit surprised when I saw England
playing in 2003 matches how much they looked like Harlequins in
throwing the ball around. They were everything the current
England team wasn't because of the way they knew where to be and
where everyone else was when attacking. (Except for Billy Whizz
- no-one knew where he was or where he was going, he'd just pop
up and start beating the defence for fun!).
As for last nights match, the trouble is two great teams who
each could win the game. Wet weather. Choice of pedestrian but
safe rugby or risky but attractive rugby. Not a shock that
entertainment went out the window. Pretty sure had that been at
Twickers they'd have had the Mexican wave going well before the
60 minutes.
But to me that was great rugby. I really enjoyed watching two of
the best teams on the planet in a wrestle to see who could break
down the oother's excellent defence. The red card was a shame,
but it was worthy of Farrell and had it been, no-one would be
the least surprised at the outcome.
#Post#: 114750--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Champions
DIR By: Rocker
Date: October 29, 2023, 8:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
What's the betting Jones turns up in Japan in a few weeks/months
....
Last night's match wasn't a classic, but that was a very intense
high pressure game. The Boks back row were immense. PTSD smashed
tackles all night. The NZers will have some sore bodies today!
The red card was a surprise. I was sure they would bottle it,
what with it being the NZ captain and the RWC final.... It was a
clear red in today's environment. I thought they were lucky that
Savea didn't get a red fur taking out Bongi at the 3 minute
mark. I mean it was an obvious ploy to take out the Bok's only
hooker....
#Post#: 114755--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Champions
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: October 29, 2023, 10:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
It was Frizell, not Savea, and it was absolutely not an obvious
attempt to take him out. He was trying to roll a horizontal
player off the ruck, slipped off and fell on the leg. Pretty
grim to accuse him of deliberately injuring Mbonambi.
#Post#: 114767--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Champions
DIR By: Quinky
Date: October 29, 2023, 5:18 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> It was Frizell, not Savea, and it was absolutely not an
obvious attempt to take him out. He was trying to roll a
horizontal player off the ruck, slipped off and fell on the leg.
Pretty grim to accuse him of deliberately injuring Mbonambi.
>
--- End Quote ---
Are you suggesting that the All Blacks wouldn't be so cynical?
#Post#: 114769--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Champions
DIR By: Bod
Date: October 29, 2023, 6:41 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Rocker link ---
>
> What's the betting Jones turns up in Japan in a few
weeks/months ....
>
> Last night's match wasn't a classic, but that was a very
intense high pressure game. The Boks back row were immense. PTSD
smashed tackles all night. The NZers will have some sore bodies
today! The red card was a surprise. I was sure they would bottle
it, what with it being the NZ captain and the RWC final.... It
was a clear red in today's environment. I thought they were
lucky that Savea didn't get a red fur taking out Bongi at the 3
minute mark. I mean it was an obvious ploy to take out the Bok's
only hooker....
>
--- End Quote ---
Savea?
#Post#: 114782--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Champions
DIR By: poorfour
Date: October 30, 2023, 6:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DOK link ---
>
> Have to say I've been enjoying the ITV replays of previous RWC
matches. And yes, I was a bit surprised when I saw England
playing in 2003 matches how much they looked like Harlequins in
throwing the ball around. They were everything the current
England team wasn't because of the way they knew where to be and
where everyone else was when attacking. (Except for Billy Whizz
- no-one knew where he was or where he was going, he'd just pop
up and start beating the defence for fun!).
>
> As for last nights match, the trouble is two great teams who
each could win the game. Wet weather. Choice of pedestrian but
safe rugby or risky but attractive rugby. Not a shock that
entertainment went out the window. Pretty sure had that been at
Twickers they'd have had the Mexican wave going well before the
60 minutes.
>
> But to me that was great rugby. I really enjoyed watching two
of the best teams on the planet in a wrestle to see who could
break down the oother's excellent defence. The red card was a
shame, but it was worthy of Farrell and had it been, no-one
would be the least surprised at the outcome.
>
--- End Quote ---
The problem for that England side was always Plan B. When they
could get front foot ball they would either score tries or win
penalties that Wilko would kick, but if a team managed to get up
in the midfield's face they were beatable - until in 2003 they
had built enough options to be able to get around that (a lot of
which was down to putting Catt in for Tindall to give a second
playmaker and take the pressure off Wilkinson).
The Cane red always looked like it should be a red, but the
issue for me is that things that should also have been red
earlier in the tournament were not treated as such. The game
could have been very different had Etzebeth been sitting out a
ban, for instance.
Frizell on Mbonangi looked bad from the angle shown in the
stadium, but from his arm positions it looked like he went for a
fair clearout and slipped. I suspect that the reverse angle
showed that and that's why it was only a yellow, but we didn't
get to see it. Although at the time I did observe that he had
been found "not English".
One thing I would like WR to do is to amend the bunker process
to put the ultimate decision back in the hands of the ref - the
bunker should show a package of the relevant angles and make a
recommendation as to the facts as they are seeing them and where
that leads the process, but the ref should have the ultimate
call. I think that would at least lead to consistency of
decisions within the context of a game.
#Post#: 114785--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Champions
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: October 30, 2023, 6:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> Are you suggesting that the All Blacks wouldn't be so cynical?
>
--- End Quote ---
I'm suggesting it's incredibly rare for any player to
deliberately seek to cause serious injury and to make that
accusation in the absence of any proof is pretty gross
#Post#: 114789--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Champions
DIR By: Yareet
Date: October 30, 2023, 8:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> the bunker should show a package of the relevant angles and
make a recommendation as to the facts as they are seeing them
and where that leads the process, but the ref should have the
ultimate call. I think that would at least lead to consistency
of decisions within the context of a game.
>
--- End Quote ---
Appreciate the sentiment but I believe that would remove the
aims of the bunker - i.e. to remove the need to stop the game
while the ref watches a load of video and to lessen the
(possible) impact of a partisan crown on the ref's decision.
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