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#Post#: 114007--------------------------------------------------
Re: England v Samoa
DIR By: Fearless Fred
Date: October 9, 2023, 3:54 am
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Nice to see some in the press finally saying what we are: Steve
Borthwick's blind loyalty to Owen Farrell is holding England
back
HTML https://archive.ph/qfTiu.
#Post#: 114008--------------------------------------------------
Re: England v Samoa
DIR By: poorfour
Date: October 9, 2023, 5:08 am
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I suspect Farrell Jr may in time be a very good coach, but I
also think that on the pitch he is contributing well below what
he achieved in 2019. He hasn't been at the same level,
internationally speaking, since Saracens were relegated.
England have not gone well with him at 12, his place kicking is
very much off the pace and Lawes has had a better rapport with
the refs as captain. He may well be a genuine leader in
training, but on the pitch I think his frustration with his own
shortcomings is putting him on tilt and compounding them.
I'll still be astonished if he isn't picked, though.
#Post#: 114014--------------------------------------------------
Re: England v Samoa
DIR By: Quinky
Date: October 9, 2023, 6:50 am
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--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> Care was worth 14 points to England in 15 minutes of playing
time, and pretty much all of England's decent attacking play
came once Marcus was on the pitch (and Marchant back at 13). I
thought both of them made a strong case for what they can offer.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
Sadly I don't think it will make any difference whatsoever.
#Post#: 114018--------------------------------------------------
Re: England v Samoa
DIR By: #495
Date: October 9, 2023, 11:03 am
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--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> Care was worth 14 points to England in 15 minutes of playing
time, and pretty much all of England's decent attacking play
came once Marcus was on the pitch (and Marchant back at 13). I
thought both of them made a strong case for what they can offer.
>
> As to whether that will sway Borthwick's selection thinking
remains to be seen, but each of them has been on the bench
pretty consistently throughout the pool stages. Unless Youngs
starts, I'd expect Care to make the bench; he has always been a
better option to change the game in the last quarter than
Youngs.
>
> Borthwick's team really seem to like Smith as the finishing
fullback too, though it depends a lot on who is and isn't fit.
Match reports mostly said that Manu went off injured, which
would force a different starting lineup if he's not recovered in
time.
>
--- End Quote ---
Trouble is that they've made a good case before...but obviously
it's still seen as unknown risk when you've got the option of
picking people who will pretty much guarantee a
'60-70%-of-possible-best-performance' but also who performed
really well in a semi-final from 4 years ago and (engage wishful
thinking) any time now can pull that performance out the bag
again (disengage wishful thinking).
Perhaps our forwards had started to gain some kind of
superiority by the time Marcus came on but in one particular
phase he showed more endeavour and line-threat than Farrell had
all game. He called a late switch from open-side to blind-side
from Mitchell (don't think Care was on yet) and took the ball
whilst moving forward aiming at two inside shoulders before
laying the ball off to Lawrence or Marchant (might have even
been the move where Marchant's try was chalked off). Nothing
fancy - just simple stuff that he does well, like drifting out
while receiving a pass so the defence aren't perfectly lining
him up. Farrell doesn't seem to have that natural movement
(which might be a bonus at 10 but is more essential at centre)
and everything is therefore a bit stodgy.
#Post#: 114020--------------------------------------------------
Re: England v Samoa
DIR By: Quinky
Date: October 9, 2023, 12:44 pm
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--- Quote from: #495 link ---
>
> Trouble is that they've made a good case before...but
obviously it's still seen as unknown risk when you've got the
option of picking people who will pretty much guarantee a
'60-70%-of-possible-best-performance' but also who performed
really well in a semi-final from 4 years ago and (engage wishful
thinking) any time now can pull that performance out the bag
again (disengage wishful thinking).
>
>
--- End Quote ---
Or even players whose last good performance was beyond memory
but are deemed undroppable, because... reasons.
#Post#: 114022--------------------------------------------------
Re: England v Samoa
DIR By: A222Quin
Date: October 9, 2023, 1:18 pm
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--- Quote from: Quintin link ---
>
> “I didn’t see the clock, I wasn’t aware,” said Farrell. “It
was above where I was picking my target. I got lost a little bit
in the kick.
>
--- End Quote ---
I mean the clock is only up on the big screen just behind the
posts....
#Post#: 114023--------------------------------------------------
Re: England v Samoa
DIR By: Yareet
Date: October 9, 2023, 2:06 pm
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--- Quote from: A222Quin link ---
>
> I mean the clock is only up on the big screen just behind the
posts....
>
--- End Quote ---
So quite possibly above the spot he was looking at.
Have I seen it mentioned he aims for a particular person in the
crowd or was that Jonny?
Either way, I can believe that Farrell’s kicking routine is to
be laser-focused on one point so he may well not look outside
that small spot.
#Post#: 114024--------------------------------------------------
Re: England v Samoa
DIR By: T-Bone
Date: October 9, 2023, 2:18 pm
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The shit clock was running down because he was gobbing off to
the referee, again.
There seems to be this belief that you can't win international
rugby by playing attacking rugby, so people like Smith aren't
suited. You can only win by having the forwards crash into
people and your ten kick all decent ball away. I appreciate that
you can't get away with being as loose as quins are at that
level, but there's a middle ground
#Post#: 114030--------------------------------------------------
Re: England v Samoa
DIR By: BedfordshireBoy
Date: October 9, 2023, 3:35 pm
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--- Quote from: BedfordshireBoy link ---
>
> Was at the game, difficult to sit through that, not seen any
post match comments from coaching staff, no doubt full of praise
how this incredible tight knit group stuck with it for the win.
> Great to see how the great leader of men rallied the troops to
get the job done.
>
--- End Quote ---
Pretty much what I said...." Another aspect is the players found
a way to win. It was not pretty, it was not the performance we
wanted but you saw a determined group of players finding a way
to navigate being behind on the scoreboard and then finding a
way to get the result at the end."
"What a player he is. I know everyone is going to talk about
kicking the points but what a phenomenal player and leader. He
was integral today leading this team through a very difficult
[game] through a performance that was very scrappy to get a win.
A great player and leader."
#Post#: 114070--------------------------------------------------
Re: England v Samoa
DIR By: Bolly-Quin
Date: October 12, 2023, 12:29 pm
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--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> ....but I also think that on the pitch he is contributing well
below what he achieved in 2019. He hasn't been at the same
level, internationally speaking, since Saracens were relegated.
--- End Quote ---
None of the Saracens players have (although George has had his
moments) - as I mentioned a few weeks ago - since they were told
the week or so before the 2019 world cup final that the RFU
would delay an announcement about Saracens Salary Cap decisions
until after the World Cup so it wouldn't affect they way they
prepare/play - except that it did, "strangely".
Last word in quote marks was the key - they knew the book was
coming their way and they were destined for huge punishment and
criticism.
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