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#Post#: 9875--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: guest257 Date: November 6, 2018, 3:17 am
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[quote author=deadlyfrom5yardsout link=topic=616.msg9870#msg9870
date=1541494644]
Well hopefully we will be able to try and find our own solutions
to these problems without having to run it past a group of
unelected self interested people.
[/quote]
Seriously though - this is kind of the unhelpful rhetoric that
defines much of the nation's views on Brexit and the EU.
There are consequences to everything. The world is small now
and especially wen it comes to regulation, trade, law, policy
etc. there are a number of setters. Europe is the biggest one
nearest us and the one we do by far the most business with, such
is life.
Being out of the EU we are still going to have to fully comply
with all of their regulations if trade and business wants to
survive - e.g. financial services, car industry, agriculture -
whatever you can think of that might involve even the smallest
amount of cross border trade/co-operation. We will have no say
in shaping these going forward
So my challenge to this kind of opinion - is how, practically,
do we move forward in such a weaker position?
My other challenge to this type of argument is - what laws
specifically have we tried to pass but the EU has frustrated us
and not allowed? Can you detail any of the EU regulations and
laws that we have had no say in and are causing us harm?
Free movement is a red herring - we have never taken as many
asylum seekers as the rest of the EU; and we have chosen not to
enact the regulation that requires EU citizens to leave if they
are not settled with a job after 3 months.
#Post#: 10006--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: deadlyfrom5yardsout Date: November 8, 2018, 4:21 am
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I obviously have more faith in the British spirit than some.
Observing rules to export somewhere is what we do all round the
world already. It may even be a healthy thing to be freed of the
Euro shackles so we can plow our own furrow around the world.
There are plenty of takers. I can see the argument that to
change and improve the Euro Block it is easier to do so from
within but frankly I feel there are just too many self
interested parties for that ever to happen the way it is
currently configured. There is no reason we cannot rejoin the EU
at a subsequent point in history, on our terms, with hopefully a
much stronger grip on trade around the world to bring to the
table. Its what we do.
On immigration, when we are out of the EU, followed closely
probably by Poland and possibly Italy we can initiate a sensible
policy that encourages anyone from anywhere round the world with
skills and required abilities to settle here whilst stopping the
flood of economic migrants that we cannot support. These people
are a global problem and its not just down to us to resolve the
issue. We can help of course but its not something we can do
alone.
#Post#: 10020--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: Date: November 8, 2018, 6:20 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=deadlyfrom5yardsout
link=topic=616.msg10006#msg10006 date=1541672468]
I obviously have more faith in the British spirit than some.
Observing rules to export somewhere is what we do all round the
world already. It may even be a healthy thing to be freed of the
Euro shackles so we can plow our own furrow around the world.
There are plenty of takers. I can see the argument that to
change and improve the Euro Block it is easier to do so from
within but frankly I feel there are just too many self
interested parties for that ever to happen the way it is
currently configured. There is no reason we cannot rejoin the EU
at a subsequent point in history, on our terms, with hopefully a
much stronger grip on trade around the world to bring to the
table. Its what we do.
On immigration, when we are out of the EU, followed closely
probably by Poland and possibly Italy we can initiate a sensible
policy that encourages anyone from anywhere round the world with
skills and required abilities to settle here whilst stopping the
flood of economic migrants that we cannot support. These people
are a global problem and its not just down to us to resolve the
issue. We can help of course but its not something we can do
alone.
[/quote]
Deadly hitting many nails on the head. A open and one world and
more options than we will have had in decades 👍🏽
#Post#: 10045--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: guest257 Date: November 8, 2018, 10:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=deadlyfrom5yardsout
link=topic=616.msg10006#msg10006 date=1541672468]
I obviously have more faith in the British spirit than some.
Observing rules to export somewhere is what we do all round the
world already. It may even be a healthy thing to be freed of the
Euro shackles so we can plow our own furrow around the world.
There are plenty of takers. I can see the argument that to
change and improve the Euro Block it is easier to do so from
within but frankly I feel there are just too many self
interested parties for that ever to happen the way it is
currently configured. There is no reason we cannot rejoin the EU
at a subsequent point in history, on our terms, with hopefully a
much stronger grip on trade around the world to bring to the
table. Its what we do.
On immigration, when we are out of the EU, followed closely
probably by Poland and possibly Italy we can initiate a sensible
policy that encourages anyone from anywhere round the world with
skills and required abilities to settle here whilst stopping the
flood of economic migrants that we cannot support. These people
are a global problem and its not just down to us to resolve the
issue. We can help of course but its not something we can do
alone.
[/quote]
I hope I don’t come across as being deliberately argumentative.
It’s not the intention. I really enjoy the discussion and want
to get to the bottom of things. Happy to continue this with
those that are jnterested!
So...my queries on this are:
1) Is it not the case that a lot of the good trade we do outside
of the EU is done on EU trade deals? What makes you think we’d
do better alone? What about the significant period (years) it
can take to negotiate even one?
2) Migration - what about the point that we already do have
powers to restrict movement of EU citizens but choose not to do
so? And the fact that it’s proven that on average EU migrant are
net contributors fiscally? Don’t we already have control over
ROW migration (that won’t change)?
3) Given so much of our trade an industry is intertwined with
the EU, do you have any idea of the quantum needed from ROW new
trade to compensate for cutting ourselves off from our EU
partners? What might that look like and what industries?
The above questions IMO are somewhat rhetorical, but I’d love to
know your thoughts.
Sadly so much of the argument against the EU I’ve seen in the
press stems from a big misunderstanding.
#Post#: 10051--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: deadlyfrom5yardsout Date: November 8, 2018, 1:40 pm
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I think the EU need us just as much as we need them.
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
HTML https://www.focus-economics.com/blog/the-largest-economies-in-the-world
If those links don't work, what I am trying to say is that the
UK is 5th largest economy IN THE WORLD and we stand at 5th also
on the list of top Gross Domestic Product. The rest of Europe
must be worried about losing our contributions.
#Post#: 10053--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: guest257 Date: November 8, 2018, 2:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=deadlyfrom5yardsout
link=topic=616.msg10051#msg10051 date=1541706029]
I think the EU need us just as much as we need them.
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
HTML https://www.focus-economics.com/blog/the-largest-economies-in-the-world
If those links don't work, what I am trying to say is that the
UK is 5th largest economy IN THE WORLD and we stand at 5th also
on the list of top Gross Domestic Product. The rest of Europe
must be worried about losing our contributions.
[/quote]
You’re dead right. They absolutely need us and we need them just
as much.
One of the other tragedies is that the EU, in their recent
handling of Britain, have demonstrated all of the
characteristics that have irritated Brits over the years. They
should have taken the chance to be more up front and do a bit of
soul searching as to how things have gone so badly wrong. They
are equally flawed.
On the other side they must be so frustrated with us. For years
we have had wasters like Farage over there, chewing the fat,
making a newsance, and wasting space that could have been filled
with progressive influencers that could have helped change the
behaviour of the out of touch political elite riding the
Brussels gravy train.
#Post#: 10059--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: deadlyfrom5yardsout Date: November 8, 2018, 3:26 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thats a good point. Maybe look at it as Farage riding the gravy
train of voters here who have only a knee jerk reaction to
issues such as immigration, fisheries, sunbeds etc...
#Post#: 10113--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: guest257 Date: November 10, 2018, 1:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I’ve found this guy’s blogs extremely interesting. An adamant
Brexiteer, he often hits the nail on the head with the criticism
of the EU and whilst the tone can sometimes by aggressive - it’s
good stuff.
HTML http://peterjnorth.blogspot.com/2018/11/the-real-brexit-dividend.html
What I’ve learnt most over the last few months is that we are at
risk because of ultras from both sides hijacking the debate.
Remainers need to get on with it and shape the future
relationship with Europe positively, and Brexiteers need to
grasp the technical challenge and stop bickering amongst
themselves.
I wish we could just get on with it in a moderate and sensible
way that doesn’t create chaos.
#Post#: 10203--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: Everyone’s a Quinner Date: November 10, 2018, 7:06 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=alexfromlondon link=topic=616.msg10113#msg10113
date=1541835870]
I’ve found this guy’s blogs extremely interesting. An adamant
Brexiteer, he often hits the nail on the head with the criticism
of the EU and whilst the tone can sometimes by aggressive - it’s
good stuff.
HTML http://peterjnorth.blogspot.com/2018/11/the-real-brexit-dividend.html
What I’ve learnt most over the last few months is that we are at
risk because of ultras from both sides hijacking the debate.
Remainers need to get on with it and shape the future
relationship with Europe positively, and Brexiteers need to
grasp the technical challenge and stop bickering amongst
themselves.
I wish we could just get on with it in a moderate and sensible
way that doesn’t create chaos.
[/quote]
Likewise
#Post#: 10226--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: deadlyfrom5yardsout Date: November 11, 2018, 4:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Yes it is an opportunity to really reorganise the way we do
things and there is nothing like a deadline to make things
happen. There is generally a resistance to change and a liking
for the status quo but this is being forced on us and I remain
very confident that we will make a good fist of it. Particularly
as we can do it our way.
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