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#Post#: 26537--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: guest257 Date: July 24, 2019, 10:52 am
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I am really not sure whether Bojo will deliver.
The words are comforting and reassuring (what is it about the
U.K. that just accepts the words of a posh old Etonian without
scrutiny or challenge) but the real test is when he is pinned on
the detail and logistics. Sadly, his “plans” will fall down at
the very first challenging hurdle, so poor is his grasp of the
detail and reality of our predicament, and how dreadful he is at
maintaining and building relationship with our overseas’
partners.
#Post#: 26539--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: guest257 Date: July 24, 2019, 10:56 am
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P.S I think the Tories should have gone for a younger, more
progressive, collaborative, intellectual leader to unite the
country. Boris seems to be nothing more than a more extreme
divisive force than we’ve had this far, akin to Trump in the
USA. But I think we are more divided and complex than the USA
and our issues are more challenging. I don’t think that sort of
figure would last as long as trump has.
#Post#: 26881--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: guest257 Date: August 3, 2019, 2:05 am
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Quite interesting mood shifts over the last few weeks.
Tory leadership pressing ahead with no deal prep. Whatever
anyone says, no deal won’t happen. No one has the courage for it
and it’ll just be a catastrophe. The numbers in parliament don’t
stack up for it so I’m still reasonably confident that it simply
won’t happen.
The “deal” seems to have been ditched. Negotiations won’t be
reopened and each sides’ red lines are the same. Forget it, and
forget anything substantially different.
Where do we go from here now?
I think we are moving towards a collapse of government in the
autumn. Then there will be another referendum with no deal vs
remain on the ballot paper.
Interestingly this is what Blair predicted not so long ago...
Thoughts?
#Post#: 26900--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: BedfordshireBoy Date: August 5, 2019, 4:13 am
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Quite a believable scenario but who knows in these strange
times. I wouldn't risk any money at the bookies.
#Post#: 27003--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: Quinky Date: August 8, 2019, 1:58 am
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I think the Boris approach is spot on. IMO the mistake that
Theresa May made was to try and find a deal to keep everyone
happy, and in so doing the deal presented made pretty much
nobody happy.
Brexit is too divisive for any compromise. Better to satisfy the
majority and allow the minority to suck it up. If that leads to
an election, then the people get to vote for their MPs and hence
their government; another result which the minority will have to
suck up.
Second referendum? That would be a disaster, especially with an
option that has already been rejected.
#Post#: 27081--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: guest257 Date: August 9, 2019, 2:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Pound on parity with Euro today. Congratulations Brexiteers,
we’ve finally joined the Euro single currency. You must be
proud!
*Shamelessly stolen from Twitter
#ProjectFear
#Post#: 27128--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: guest257 Date: August 11, 2019, 1:56 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Quinky link=topic=616.msg27003#msg27003
date=1565247526]
I think the Boris approach is spot on. IMO the mistake that
Theresa May made was to try and find a deal to keep everyone
happy, and in so doing the deal presented made pretty much
nobody happy.
Brexit is too divisive for any compromise. Better to satisfy the
majority and allow the minority to suck it up. If that leads to
an election, then the people get to vote for their MPs and hence
their government; another result which the minority will have to
suck up.
Second referendum? That would be a disaster, especially with an
option that has already been rejected.
[/quote]
That’s interesting. Actually I thought May’s mistake was trying
too hard to appease the right wing of her party and she
therefore put up these incompatible and unworkable red lines.
She was fixated by one issue (immigration), which in some ways
is the easiest one to solve and could have been sorted within
the EU.
I think if she’d been a bit smarter, and a bit more moderate,
the withdrawal agreement would have got through.
Lurching to one side or another isn’t going to heal the
division. Compromise and understanding is. Remainers have needed
to accept the result and push, not for Remain, but for a future
relationship out of the EU that would retain what they wanted
and were concerned about losing outside of the EU. It can be
done. Leavers need to accept that a huge % of the country is
massively upset about this decision and feel that their rights,
opportunities and prosperity have been taken away from them
unfairly. Again, this can be dealt with, with smart leadership
and intelligent thinking.
Reactionary belligerence is not going to solve this. Boris is
not going to solve this. He’s a national embarrassment and the
cabinet he’s assembled is quite frankly scary. We need moderate,
sensible, pragmatic compromise.
The way this bunch are going we will end up with a failing
economy, troubles followed by a united ireland and an
independent scotland. Will anyone be happy with this?
#Post#: 27186--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: Quinky Date: August 12, 2019, 7:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=alexfromlondon link=topic=616.msg27081#msg27081
date=1565378860]
Pound on parity with Euro today. Congratulations Brexiteers,
we’ve finally joined the Euro single currency. You must be
proud!
*Shamelessly stolen from Twitter
#ProjectFear
[/quote]
I'd forgotten that currencies fluctuate... and that any
negatives must be due to Brexit...
#Post#: 27195--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: Quinky Date: August 12, 2019, 7:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=alexfromlondon link=topic=616.msg27128#msg27128
date=1565506566]
That’s interesting. Actually I thought May’s mistake was trying
too hard to appease the right wing of her party and she
therefore put up these incompatible and unworkable red lines.
She was fixated by one issue (immigration), which in some ways
is the easiest one to solve and could have been sorted within
the EU.
I think if she’d been a bit smarter, and a bit more moderate,
the withdrawal agreement would have got through.
Lurching to one side or another isn’t going to heal the
division. Compromise and understanding is. Remainers have needed
to accept the result and push, not for Remain, but for a future
relationship out of the EU that would retain what they wanted
and were concerned about losing outside of the EU. It can be
done. Leavers need to accept that a huge % of the country is
massively upset about this decision and feel that their rights,
opportunities and prosperity have been taken away from them
unfairly. Again, this can be dealt with, with smart leadership
and intelligent thinking.
Reactionary belligerence is not going to solve this. Boris is
not going to solve this. He’s a national embarrassment and the
cabinet he’s assembled is quite frankly scary. We need moderate,
sensible, pragmatic compromise.
The way this bunch are going we will end up with a failing
economy, troubles followed by a united ireland and an
independent scotland. Will anyone be happy with this?
[/quote]
I fundamentally disagree on much of what you are saying here. I
don't quite how the "issue of immigration" could have been
easily sorted within the EU. It's not a simple issue, and whilst
there is freedom of movement (in and out) it's even harder to
control. I also think you take a very simplistic view of the
Withdrawal Agreement, and you overlook the fact that whatever
she offered up to Parliament would have been rejected by some
MPs.
Saying that "Remainers have needed to accept the result" sounds
wonderful, but for a huge number that just won't happen until
the deal is done. When you have elected politicians whose stated
aim is to overturn the result of the referendum, regardless of
the voting of their electorate, you have a problem. Those people
will try to thwart any deal, by whatever means possible; and to
say that a huge % of the country is massively upset, how do you
think the even huger % feel when they actually WON the
referendum??!!
I don't know why you're embarrassed about Boris - I'm certainly
not. I believe he's exactly what the country need, and is
already converting people with strong rhetoric. He'll need to
deliver, and thet will take time - which undoubtedly he won't be
given by those who are dead set against him - but so far he's
talking a good talk and has chosen a cabinet that has the
determination to deliver what's expected of them.
Personally I'd say there are many more things that the country
should be embarrassed about - the current opposition, the way
they treat visiting dignitaries, the inconsistency in how they
treat others, the treatment of returning jihadis, the appalling
way in which violent crime is addressed, our pathetic justice
system, the level of hypocrisy from elected representatives (on
all sides), the UK media and their blatant bias... I could go
on, it's a long list, and seemingly growing.
#Post#: 27278--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: guest257 Date: August 14, 2019, 7:37 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Quinky link=topic=616.msg27195#msg27195
date=1565612931]
I fundamentally disagree on much of what you are saying here. I
don't quite how the "issue of immigration" could have been
easily sorted within the EU. It's not a simple issue, and whilst
there is freedom of movement (in and out) it's even harder to
control. I also think you take a very simplistic view of the
Withdrawal Agreement, and you overlook the fact that whatever
she offered up to Parliament would have been rejected by some
MPs.
Saying that "Remainers have needed to accept the result" sounds
wonderful, but for a huge number that just won't happen until
the deal is done. When you have elected politicians whose stated
aim is to overturn the result of the referendum, regardless of
the voting of their electorate, you have a problem. Those people
will try to thwart any deal, by whatever means possible; and to
say that a huge % of the country is massively upset, how do you
think the even huger % feel when they actually WON the
referendum??!!
I don't know why you're embarrassed about Boris - I'm certainly
not. I believe he's exactly what the country need, and is
already converting people with strong rhetoric. He'll need to
deliver, and thet will take time - which undoubtedly he won't be
given by those who are dead set against him - but so far he's
talking a good talk and has chosen a cabinet that has the
determination to deliver what's expected of them.
Personally I'd say there are many more things that the country
should be embarrassed about - the current opposition, the way
they treat visiting dignitaries, the inconsistency in how they
treat others, the treatment of returning jihadis, the appalling
way in which violent crime is addressed, our pathetic justice
system, the level of hypocrisy from elected representatives (on
all sides), the UK media and their blatant bias... I could go
on, it's a long list, and seemingly growing.
[/quote]
Boris's quotes and comments display an incredibly lack of tact
and sensitivity. Almost verging on Prince Phillip standards.
It's a shameful reflection on Britain as a modern nation and the
comments are a relic of another era.
So...whilst the referendum needs to be respected, why should it
be done in a way that violates the UK's existing obligations
under international treaties, in particular the Good Friday
agreement.
What do you have to stay to Scotland, who voted for Remain, and
will now push for another independence referendum? Are you
happy with pushing ahead with your extreme form of Brexit if it
means the UK will break up?
What about Ireland? Whilst there may be longer term solutions
for the border on the horizon, what do you propose doing on 1st
November?
Boris hasn't got a clue. It's all rhetoric that'll be used to
blame others when it all goes wrong.
None of the infrastructure required for no-deal can possibly be
ready in time for 31st October.
The withdrawal agreement won't be amended and won't be accepted
for the millionth time. No deal is not physically possible to
implement. What is the solution?
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