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#Post#: 9398--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: TomBuckQuin Date: October 29, 2018, 5:25 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Basically, BB's post + alexfromlondon's post = my thoughts. My
main issue is that we are OVER-estimating our position. We
aren't the empire anymore (thank whatever god you want). And
guess what, maybe we do have a superior economy vs individual EU
countries (aside from Germany and France maybe) but we don't
have a superior economy to the lot of them combined. Who really
thinks we do? Seriously? That's the rhetoric - it's actually
nuts. Our bargaining position is weak - I'd love Everyone's a
Quinner to convince us otherwise. Disliking our posts is one
thing but if your only reason for Brexit is "sovereignty" or "we
voted on something 2 years ago therefore it doesn't matter if
something completely different is actually going to happen" then
I'm none the wiser. So help us. What is this all about? Really.
Sovereignty doesn't do it for me personally because do you
genuinely, REALLY think anything will actually change for the
better with the numpties we have running this country? And
that's completely ignoring the benefits we get from the EU...
Oh, but it's better to ignore those - doesn't fit the brexiteer
argument that we actually gain economically from the EU, does
it?
If it's immigration then at least have the balls to say so. I'm
sorry but I haven't been convinced it's anything else.
Personally, I'd love to think that if I wanted to move to any
other landmass in the world then I'd be welcomed like a fellow
human being, but maybe that's too much to ask. Such a sad world
we live in. The more I live, the more I think humans (and
particularly us white people - yup, that's what I said, deal
with it) are a pathetic bunch. It is about "the other" when you
boil it all down. For me, anyway. You won't convince me
otherwise just by crying "just because we're saying this doesn't
mean we're racist".
The funniest part is I used to consider myself patriotic when I
was a kid - because I'd go to Twickenham and roar my little
heart out as Rory Underwood rocketed down the touch line. That's
what I thought patriotism was all about - was my only frame of
reference. Now it's harder to feel that. Which is quite sad
really.
For some context:
Yup, I'm a millennial. I've also been disabled since birth -
have a rare neuromuscular condition. Have never walked, have
full body muscle weakness. I rely on personal care assistants to
help me do the basics day-to-day. Guess what? Haven't found a
single British chap who wants to wipe my bum on the daily.
Currently employ 3 Hungarian guys. Who knows how this will
affect that - but that's not your worry, it's mine. Except I
didn't vote for this. Hence I'm angry - that other people have
put me being able to get out of bed in the morning in jeopardy
because they don't like Polish people living nearby. Or people
with a different skin colour. Maybe not you reading this - maybe
you really did vote for other genuine reasons - but I knew a lot
of people who voted that way for that reason. "Knew" because I
no longer want to know a single thing about them. Disgusting as
far as I'm concerned - and not just because it affects me. The
reality seems to be that it's going to affect far more people
than anyone realises.
And "disgusting" why? Because my girlfriend, who is black (and
was born here and considers herself British in every sense) has
been treated to some seriously threatening abuse and behaviour
ever since this rise in right/alt-right rhetoric. And yes, I do
consider Brexit to be simultaneously a symptom and a cause of
that fever. There's no plausible way you can deny that - that's
utter ignorance.
So when anyone talks about being patriotic I just can't get
behind it. What is there to be patriotic about? I'll cheer on
the England rugby team but I realise now that that has nothing
to do with patriotism in the true sense of the word.
And then there's the fact that Brexit is a mess anyway - so
whatever you voted for, whichever side you're on, you're not
getting it. None of us are happy, has anyone noticed that?
Baffling.
#Post#: 9400--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: Date: October 29, 2018, 7:44 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=TomBuckQuin link=topic=616.msg9398#msg9398
date=1540851943]
Basically, BB's post + alexfromlondon's post = my thoughts. My
main issue is that we are OVER-estimating our position. We
aren't the empire anymore (thank whatever god you want). And
guess what, maybe we do have a superior economy vs individual EU
countries (aside from Germany and France maybe) but we don't
have a superior economy to the lot of them combined. Who really
thinks we do? Seriously? That's the rhetoric - it's actually
nuts. Our bargaining position is weak - I'd love Everyone's a
Quinner to convince us otherwise. Disliking our posts is one
thing but if your only reason for Brexit is "sovereignty" or "we
voted on something 2 years ago therefore it doesn't matter if
something completely different is actually going to happen" then
I'm none the wiser. So help us. What is this all about? Really.
Sovereignty doesn't do it for me personally because do you
genuinely, REALLY think anything will actually change for the
better with the numpties we have running this country? And
that's completely ignoring the benefits we get from the EU...
Oh, but it's better to ignore those - doesn't fit the brexiteer
argument that we actually gain economically from the EU, does
it?
If it's immigration then at least have the balls to say so. I'm
sorry but I haven't been convinced it's anything else.
Personally, I'd love to think that if I wanted to move to any
other landmass in the world then I'd be welcomed like a fellow
human being, but maybe that's too much to ask. Such a sad world
we live in. The more I live, the more I think humans (and
particularly us white people - yup, that's what I said, deal
with it) are a pathetic bunch. It is about "the other" when you
boil it all down. For me, anyway. You won't convince me
otherwise just by crying "just because we're saying this doesn't
mean we're racist".
The funniest part is I used to consider myself patriotic when I
was a kid - because I'd go to Twickenham and roar my little
heart out as Rory Underwood rocketed down the touch line. That's
what I thought patriotism was all about - was my only frame of
reference. Now it's harder to feel that. Which is quite sad
really.
For some context:
Yup, I'm a millennial. I've also been disabled since birth -
have a rare neuromuscular condition. Have never walked, have
full body muscle weakness. I rely on personal care assistants to
help me do the basics day-to-day. Guess what? Haven't found a
single British chap who wants to wipe my bum on the daily.
Currently employ 3 Hungarian guys. Who knows how this will
affect that - but that's not your worry, it's mine. Except I
didn't vote for this. Hence I'm angry - that other people have
put me being able to get out of bed in the morning in jeopardy
because they don't like Polish people living nearby. Or people
with a different skin colour. Maybe not you reading this - maybe
you really did vote for other genuine reasons - but I knew a lot
of people who voted that way for that reason. "Knew" because I
no longer want to know a single thing about them. Disgusting as
far as I'm concerned - and not just because it affects me. The
reality seems to be that it's going to affect far more people
than anyone realises.
And "disgusting" why? Because my girlfriend, who is black (and
was born here and considers herself British in every sense) has
been treated to some seriously threatening abuse and behaviour
ever since this rise in right/alt-right rhetoric. And yes, I do
consider Brexit to be simultaneously a symptom and a cause of
that fever. There's no plausible way you can deny that - that's
utter ignorance.
So when anyone talks about being patriotic I just can't get
behind it. What is there to be patriotic about? I'll cheer on
the England rugby team but I realise now that that has nothing
to do with patriotism in the true sense of the word.
And then there's the fact that Brexit is a mess anyway - so
whatever you voted for, whichever side you're on, you're not
getting it. None of us are happy, has anyone noticed that?
Baffling.
[/quote]
TomBuckQuin and others it may concern.
I’m from the 1990’s and come in peace.
I would love to sit here on my sofa and explain to you what this
is all about, by this I am assuming you mean the mess our PM and
her aides are conjuring? The honest fact is I don’t know, much
like you, what is going on at the moment because of the
atrocities of how this is being handled by BOTH sides. I voted
to leave for a great many reasons, not that I have to explain
myself to you but to name a few:
General principals and trade:
I am sick to death of our country being a big contributor to the
EU in many ways, and yet when big decisions are made we aren't
given our fair input into the decision making process for
example laws, taxes, joint ventures, trade, immigration,
economics and more. We are taken for fools with big money
pockets to burn. We are not taken as we should be, a big
contributor to the EU. You look even now and our country and our
PM along with her team aren’t respected by the other EU
negotiating team. The Irish border is used as a bully boy
European barganing tool; to which, a wise Irishman I know of put
it perfectly regarding the Irish Border. Southern Ireland are
part of the EU, Northern Ireland are going to be leaving, BUT
they do not want a hard border. A big part of this is working
out taxes on goods going from one part of Ireland to the other.
Here’s an example, they already have trade agreements and
already work out taxes quite easily. Why, for example: Guinness
Beer. It’s brewed in the South of Ireland (EU for those asking)
then it’s transported over the boarder to Northern Ireland (UK
for those asking) where it is both bottled, then transported
back to the South of Ireland and then guess what: exported
GLOBALLY. And the lorry’s between these two parts of Europe
cross freely. Point being they’ve worked out very easily the
right tax/procedures, why does this now have to be different and
become a big issue and a bully boy bargaining tool by the EU.
The whole original point of the EU was to help trade between
European nations become much easier but in the end its evolved
to quite the opposite and much more, becoming more controlling
(even to the point where they now want an European Army Force,
for what reason one rightly asks).
Immigration: It’s not stopping people coming into this country,
it’s about opening up the opportunities to everyone worldwide,
giving everyone an equal opportunity in achieving things in our
country instead of it mainly being about giving preference to
Europeans (who I don’t have a problem with). It’s also about
having better control of immigration, controlling it like
Australia does; having people come over who can work and have a
profession, and having a better system which puts less pressure
on services such as social benefits and housing.
When you say we aren’t the empire anymore, I agree nor would I
like to be part of one, which my friend is why I don’t like
where the EU is going. It’s Europe these days which is becoming
and acting more of an empire than we do.
I feel some Remainers cry out for unity (I don’t blame them) not
fully understanding that leaving the EU has nothing to do with
getting along just swell with our neighbours. We can all still
play together, just work in different offices. Some Remainers
say that by leaving the EU we can’t get along anymore. Why?! We
can all get along, we don’t have to be making daisy chains to do
so. We have the whole world to be friends and trade with. Why oh
why is it just restricted to the EU and if we leave it will
incur doom to us all!!! It won’t!!!!! The world is our oyster.
To be perfectly honest with you, like I have said before it is a
great shame that in the case of Brexit, Parties and MPs from
different Parties can’t come together at one round table, share
their good ideas, feed off of the people with good ideas and
then go about their separate lives afterward so should they
wish. Like him or loath him, people like Farage, Rees-Mog etc:
you don’t have to like someone to agree with someone or take
advice from them. They have sometimes good ideas and it’s a
shame these people or at least their opinions aren’t being
listened to or considered by PM and the team in charge of Brexit
at the moment because they are too worried about what people
would think of them for talking cross-party interest wise.
You my friend I am afraid, are portraying yourself as a bit
hypocritical by shooting at the hip at me and others who voted
leave, branding us as part of the blame in the rise of
“right/alt-right” etc when you don’t even know me/us, then stand
there and blame all of the disgusting and atrocious behaviour
you and your girlfriend have been dealt with on “people who
voted to leave”. I don’t condone that behaviour one bit and I
have many close Polynesian, Black, Asian, American, Caribbean,
Canadian, South African and European (YES, European) friends who
would back that up. Just because I voted to leave doesn’t mean
you can tarnish me or others with that brush. I am sure there
are people out there who are racist and voted Remain too. There
are many forms of racism and I take kindly to none. I am sorry
to hear you have been subject to the vile behaviour that is
racism, I too have been subjected to racism a few times myself
growing up. Being someone who voted to Leave doesn’t mean I can
be stereotyped and labelled as something I’m not. TomBuckQuin
you and your girlfriend have my full sincere thoughts and
support and it’s not nice to hear of this dispicable behaviour.
I stand in unison with any other being in defending each other
from that travesty.
Please understand that on both sides of the referendum vote
fence, there are many types of Leavers and Remainers with
different views and ideas and visions of the future. I am merely
just one of them, these views are my own and I respect
everyone’s opinion. At the end of the day I just want to have a
better Britain and make things better for us in our little
cluster of island and parts of the country that form the UK. I
don’t like to be stereotyped as I’m sure you can appreciate.
Please let’s try to understand that everyone is different and
that you/we can’t judge a book by what’s written on the cover.
We can’t judge, mock or label a human being by voting to Leave
or Remain. It doesn’t promote the unity people wish for and
preach for by doing so.
I come in peace and leave in such manor.
I hope this gives you an insight into why I voted this way, and
again I am sorry if I offend anyone. I certainly don’t wish to
do so. I write this in a calm tone and please portray it as
such.
We are all Harlequin
#Post#: 9411--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: deadlyfrom5yardsout Date: October 30, 2018, 4:06 am
---------------------------------------------------------
COYQ!
#Post#: 9535--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: guest257 Date: November 1, 2018, 11:52 am
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More twists and turns. Aaron Banks today....
#Post#: 9571--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: deadlyfrom5yardsout Date: November 2, 2018, 4:45 am
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What'd he say?
#Post#: 9577--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: BedfordshireBoy Date: November 2, 2018, 5:08 am
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It wasn't me guv.
#Post#: 9774--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: RodneyRegis Date: November 4, 2018, 2:10 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
HTML https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2018/11/03/09/5722482-0-image-a-16_1541236196197.jpg
#Post#: 9780--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: guest257 Date: November 4, 2018, 2:36 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Interesting graphic. Pivotally Scotland and NI both Remain.
I find what is revealed when you drill into the vote very
interesting. The splits and division are prevalent throughout
the U.K.
My reading is on the whole:
Young - Remain; Old - Leave
University Educated - Remain; Others - Leave
Urban - Remain; Rural - Leave
I guess it’s hardly a surprise that the younger, more upwardly
mobile (and inherently more likely to have been in education
longer) are doing better under the current system and have voted
for the status quo. Than those older (more likely to be having a
strop about the local pub being turned into a Polish Deli) and
the working class struggling with employment and opportunities
under the current system voted for a reactionary leave.
David Cameron really really messed this up and divided the
country like no one else has.
Yes Brexit is happening but it absolutely won’t heal those
divisions. It will make them worse and the country will be
poorer and angrier than before.
Tragedy.
#Post#: 9870--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: deadlyfrom5yardsout Date: November 6, 2018, 2:57 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Well hopefully we will be able to try and find our own solutions
to these problems without having to run it past a group of
unelected self interested people.
#Post#: 9871--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: guest257 Date: November 6, 2018, 3:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=deadlyfrom5yardsout link=topic=616.msg9870#msg9870
date=1541494644]
Well hopefully we will be able to try and find our own solutions
to these problems without having to run it past a group of
unelected self interested people.
[/quote]
Wow - you have a magic solution to get things past the May's
Tories and the DUP? Let's hear about this system? ;)
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