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#Post#: 111979--------------------------------------------------
Re: England team v Wales
DIR By: Quinten Poulsen
Date: August 13, 2023, 6:35 am
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Billy's first game for around 5 months so don't write him off
yet.
#Post#: 111982--------------------------------------------------
Re: England team v Wales
DIR By: Jonathan Daws
Date: August 13, 2023, 7:07 am
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Some positives from yesterday:
1. We Won
2. Everyone knows the SB game plan
3. Ford will start against Argentina once Faz�s ban length is
confirmed.
4. Billy didn�t break yet
#Post#: 111983--------------------------------------------------
Re: England team v Wales
DIR By: Rocker
Date: August 13, 2023, 7:12 am
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Billy V hasn't been any good at international level for about 3
years....
Fazlet is going to be out for the start of the world cup at
least. Starting point for that is 6 weeks. Can't get a reduction
for "good behaviour" as he had previous for this same thing
earlier in the year. Can't do tackle school again, so I can't
see how it's less than a 6 week ban.... That's the whole pool
stage of the WC, so I can't see how he keeps his place in the
squad. Presumably as the actual deadline for the squad isn't
there yet we could at this stage have a replacement?
#Post#: 111986--------------------------------------------------
Re: England team v Wales
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: August 13, 2023, 8:16 am
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--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> It was bad. He wasn't even looking at the ball, just the
player.
> I thought it would be a red at the time.
>
--- End Quote ---
It was both stupid and dangerous, but the standard for what
consistutes a red card offence is fairly clear in this scenario.
He landed squarely on his side, so red isn't the starting point.
#Post#: 111987--------------------------------------------------
Re: England team v Wales
DIR By: Man From LA
Date: August 13, 2023, 8:20 am
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Good piece on Rugbypass
HTML https://www.rugbypass.com/news/owen-farrell-to-ignore-the-evidence-of-our-own-eyes-is-not-an-option/
#Post#: 111989--------------------------------------------------
Re: England team v Wales
DIR By: The Kid
Date: August 13, 2023, 9:12 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The class of 2019 (Marler, George, Cole, Lawes, Billy V, Youngs,
Farrell, Watson, Daly) is probably slightly past the peak of the
curve. Rather than finding succession plans around the likes of
Itoje, Curry, Ford, they�re being asked to do it all again with
both more tread on the tyres and a more limited game plan, and
the results are about as good as you�d think. Yesterday�s team
was the most experienced England side by number of caps ever
names. Didn�t look like it.

England have a number of issues and the main one is the game
plan. We all know what that is and it's really ugly one-out,
coffin corner rugby. Every other issue constitutes only
embellishment and detail. Some of the latter can be fixed, but
the limited approach is going to see us well and truly beaten
the second we meet any of the top 4-5 teams in the world. I just
don't see how it can succeed.

I don�t think 8 will be much of a problem in the wider scheme of
things; Earl can play there (and had a good game yesterday), as
can Curry and Ludlam. Billy V is playing himself back in.

England seem to think they can offset this by getting more
carrying out of the props, playing two big centres, and by
playing Martin at 5. Perhaps this is why the scrum looks really
creaky? � referees not liking what they�re seeing from anyone in
white, maybe we ask too much of the props in the loose and this
is the price?

Bigger problem is half back. JVP�s injury didn�t look good, and
Farrell has probably ruled himself out of the group stages of
the world cup through clotheslining someone. Losing your
starting halfbacks is not ideal.

At least in Youngs / Ford and Care / Smith you have two familiar
combinations that allow us to try different styles, if we were
willing. However, we all know which one of those two is going to
get game time. Either Ford or Smith at 10 makes us have to
defend differently; both fall off tackles in close quarters too
easily. Farrell makes the hits, but at head height. No good
option.

Ultimately trying to run back the 2019 team hasn�t worked �
England have not evolved since 2019, and instead have regressed.
The core of this team reflects that four years have passed
without them having aged gracefully. I genuinely believe that
Jones tried evolving this, but didn�t succeed (bar giving the
likes of Steward, Smith, JVP, and Genge their wings and briefly
making a 2 playmaker system look good in Australia last summer),
and we�re left with the pieces. Less than the sum of the
depreciating parts will not be enough. All have served their
country well, but it all looks very tired and outdated compared
to the better sides in the tournament.

As an aside, the referee�s style yesterday annoyed me � awful
clock control which contributed to a really slow game between
two bad teams. Seven cards, wasn't it?
#Post#: 111991--------------------------------------------------
Re: England team v Wales
DIR By: Bolly-Quin
Date: August 13, 2023, 9:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Man From LA link ---
>
> Marsile/Hoof/Kawasaki has an obsession about Quins on other
boards as well as this one. The one thing he's consistent on.
>
--- End Quote ---
Marsile was a fictional King of the Saracens; unfortunately (or
not), he loses his hand in a battle and later dies of his
wounds...
#Post#: 111994--------------------------------------------------
Re: England team v Wales
DIR By: Man From LA
Date: August 13, 2023, 11:06 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Bolly-Quin link ---
>
> Marsile was a fictional King of the Saracens; unfortunately
(or not), he loses his hand in a battle and later dies of his
wounds...
>
--- End Quote ---
Maybe the modern day (m)Arsile hurt his hand last night and
can't use his keyboard, as since his hero Farrell balls-ed up
yesterday he's hardly been seen on any forums. Bit odd as he's
had a lot to say all week after Smithy started at 10...
#Post#: 111997--------------------------------------------------
Re: England team v Wales
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: August 13, 2023, 12:32 pm
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I see Farrell's passing off his left is really coming on.
#Post#: 111998--------------------------------------------------
Re: England team v Wales
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: August 13, 2023, 12:44 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinten Poulsen link ---
>
> Billy's first game for around 5 months so don't write him off
yet.
>
--- End Quote ---
Can I wrote him off on the basis that he hasn't done anything
for the last 4 years?
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