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#Post#: 111661--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith to start
DIR By: QuinsMighty
Date: August 6, 2023, 3:54 am
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I've always felt Dombrandt looks more comfortable in a Quin's
shirt because he has the aura of being a leader within that
group. Whereas for England; I've haven't necessarily seen him
giving orders or having the confidence to be a vocal character
which is the polar opposite for when he's at Quins.
#Post#: 111662--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith to start
DIR By: QuinsMighty
Date: August 6, 2023, 4:02 am
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Also selfishly enjoyed that one of the only good attacking plays
England had in the game was probably just a Quin's move, when DC
passed to Dombrandt who gave to Smith with Marchant almost going
through
#Post#: 111663--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith to start
DIR By: Marsile
Date: August 6, 2023, 4:34 am
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--- Quote from: DOK link ---
>
> Probably true.It was clear Danny and Marcus were pretty
strictly sticking to a pre ordained game plan.Farrell is much
better at doing what he's told, regardless of opportunities
missed.
>
> It's like yoking a cart horse and a thoroughbred to a cart.
Which is going to be better at doing the job?Which will appear
more skittish and ineffective? Which is the best choice to get
the cart to where you want it to go?
>
> But if the choice is between the cart horse and winning the
race? Don't restrict your thoroughbred to the pace of your cart
horse. I've been reading all week how England are going to be
sticking to a simple plan in the RWC. Presumably the same one
Lord Hague used in WWI, we can overwhelm them with our superior
numbers and obstinacy! 🙂
>
--- End Quote ---
Quins fans: England are useless with Farrell playing.
England: Ok, we'll pick the Quins 8, 9, 10 and 13.
Quins fans: England are even worse when Farrell isn't playing
but it wasn't the Quins players' fault.
Jesus wept! [emoji23]
#Post#: 111665--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith to start
DIR By: Audi Quintro
Date: August 6, 2023, 5:29 am
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England are just as rubbish with Farrell.
#Post#: 111668--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith to start
DIR By: Camquin
Date: August 6, 2023, 7:31 am
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According to the Rugby Paper, that was a 6 out of 10 performance
all round from England, except Joe, Marcus, Jamie Ludlam and
George Martin who were rated 7.
Wales were mainly rated 7, except for the captain Morgan, who
got an 8. Six of the Welshmen were rated 6.
#Post#: 111669--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith to start
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: August 6, 2023, 7:31 am
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--- Quote from: Marsile link ---
>
>
> Quins fans: England are useless with Farrell playing.
>
> England: Ok, we'll pick the Quins 8, 9, 10 and 13.
>
> Quins fans: England are even worse when Farrell isn't playing
but it wasn't the Quins players' fault.
>
>
> Jesus wept! [emoji23]
>
--- End Quote ---
He's literally saying Farrell would've been better suited to
that game plan but you do you!
Fairly sure the Quins players, whatever their failings on the
day, were also the source of the few good things we did and not
responsible for the repeated howlers from several players - some
of whom are even Saracens! - and not the source of all the lost
possession.
Smith and Care got asked to do something that isn't their
natural game and did it to a good standard. It just wasn't a
winning approach. It's a game more suited to Ford and Farrell
(which is why those two are in the box seat) and with the added
grunt coming in next week I'm sure it'll result in a win against
Wales reserves, for whatever that's worth.
The criticisms of Farrell tend to focus on what he executes
badly - the decision making of when to kick vs knowing when it's
on to keep it in hand, and the execution of the kicks and
passes. The difference between Farrell the club player and
Farrell the international is stark in those scenarios. It's very
strange.
#Post#: 111670--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith to start
DIR By: Banstead Quin
Date: August 6, 2023, 7:35 am
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I was prepared to give Borthwick a pass for this tournament but,
sadly, he's fallen into the trap of trying to please everyone
and show that he has a Plan 'B' which the press and fans
criticised Eddie for not having. Instead of sticking to his
beliefs, he now has two approaches suited to two different
halves of his squad, rather than going Tigers, Sarries, Chiefs &
Sale centric and going where his coaches are happy.
Sadly, it's a shambles and even though I hope they can put some
kind of run together, I just can't see it. I thought the semi
final was reachable but am now worried about the QF tickets I've
purchased....Still, Argentina v wales or Oz should be a good
game
#Post#: 111672--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith to start
DIR By: Marsile
Date: August 6, 2023, 9:15 am
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--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> The difference between Farrell the club player and Farrell the
international is stark in those scenarios. It's very strange.
>
--- End Quote ---
Sounds to me like you are saying Farrell plays a different way
for his club than he does for England.
Isn't the complaint that Smith plays a different way for England
than he does for his club as well?
#Post#: 111673--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith to start
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: August 6, 2023, 9:44 am
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--- Quote from: Marsile link ---
>
>
> Sounds to me like you are saying Farrell plays a different way
for his club than he does for England.
>
> Isn't the complaint that Smith plays a different way for
England than he does for his club as well?
>
--- End Quote ---
No, I'm not saying Farrell plays in a different way for Saracens
than for England. I'm saying his decision making and execution
of skills are, for England, far below his usual standard for
Saracens far more often than his legend would suggest. This
pre-dates the Eddie Jones & Borthwick era(s) and has been seen
as recently as the last 6N. There is a reason he's never nailed
down the 10 shirt as his own and why he's been such a divisive
choice for England despite his unparalleled club success.
England's game plan against Wales was deliberately negative.
England's strategy was a lot of high balls, and a lot of one-out
carries, with the occasional attempt to actually play with the
ball. Both Care & Smith executed that strategy just fine, but
obviously it's a waste of their particular strengths; you could
ask any decent kicking 9 & 10 in the league to do the same with
much the same result. I recall only one time where Smith kicked
when he should've kept it in hand, and they both were pretty
accurate when asked to kick it; neither ran the ball, and Smith
made space for others pretty effectively at times.
Neither player made the sort of errors that sees Farrell get
criticism. It was dull as ditchwater, but both players are
natural runners and high tempo players having to play a
low-tempo game, so what you see is what you get. I fully believe
Farrell may well have been more successful at creating something
within that structure, for what it's worth, but ultimately if
you want an England team to play that way, Ford is the man
anyway. If it had been Fin Smith not Marcus Smith producing the
exact same performance, people would've been talking about how
well he executed the game plan and the bright parts of his game
coming through, etc etc, but because it's Marcus if he doesn't
produce scintillating solo magic the rest is kinda just ignored.
If it helps you save time, you can copy and paste this response
to all the other rugby forums you've posted essentially the same
stuff on about "Harlequins 8,9, 10, and 13" in your mad
obsession over our club. Marchant aside, I don't think our
players did anything particularly worth of praise, but you might
want to start looking at some other players if you want to fire
up the criticism. There were some epicly poor performances and
some absolutely awful repeat mistakes. The set piece was mostly
dreadful, the number of times certain players lost the ball
absolutely appalling, Porter was again a gaping void in the
backline, and the strategy sucked.
#Post#: 111674--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith to start
DIR By: Audi Quintro
Date: August 6, 2023, 9:50 am
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Theo Dan was rubbish. Must be the worst ever England debut.
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