DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
ComeAllWithin (Harlequins Rugby)
HTML https://comeallwithin.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: ComeAllWithin Board
*****************************************************
#Post#: 110640--------------------------------------------------
Re: 10 team league.....
DIR By: TomBuckQuin
Date: July 3, 2023, 3:49 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: RodneyRegis link ---
>
> the financial reality is that if owners want to buy rugby
clubs, they have to subsidise the game. They aren't going to
make money, and to suddenly decided you want to mitigate losses
when the people who come to watch can't afford massive price
hikes is just idiotic.
>
--- End Quote ---
Except Quins are on the brink of breaking even / turning profit
year-on-year now - so if you're the owners, would you not be
telling the CEO to convert that foundation into the largest
margin possible in order to service the club's debts? That's
Laurie's job don't forget - to make the club a profitable
business. Do you really think these numbers have been plucked
out of nowhere? No - if they think people will pay those prices,
they will charge them. As brutal as it is, if that prices me
out, there will be someone else who comes in and takes my seat.
Of course there's a balance - if they charge too much and price
too many people out, they're less likely to replace that many.
But we all know there was a waiting list last season, there's a
waiting list this season - so clearly the demand is there. From
a business point of view, a price hike is a no-brainer. None of
us like it, but it's naive to think it was ever going to be any
other way.
#Post#: 110647--------------------------------------------------
Re: 10 team league.....
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: July 3, 2023, 8:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I'm pretty sure that there's some serious debt being shuffled
around that makes us look healthier than we are, e.g.
HTML https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/status/1671136289934934016
and
I'm fairly sure Rodney's talked about this before.
I don't think we're on the brink of turning a profit YOY any
time soon
#Post#: 110649--------------------------------------------------
Re: 10 team league.....
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: July 3, 2023, 9:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I don't really remember, but it rings a bell that they
changed the company structure some years ago so that the
interest on the loans from the owners is recognised elsewhere
within the group.
As far as I can work out, the club owes shedloads to the parent
company, and shedloads more to HMRC for deferred tax payments,
and another shedload to the govt for Covid loans.
Now, if we had no debt, we might just about break even. But we
do have debt. Lots and lots and lots. So any profit goes towards
starting to service the debt - ie paying off some interest, not
the capital.
"But we all know there was a waiting list last season, there's a
waiting list this season"
There certainly was, but are we sure there is still? Anecdotes
on these boards suggest otherwise.
#Post#: 110650--------------------------------------------------
Re: 10 team league.....
DIR By: poorfour
Date: July 3, 2023, 9:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: RodneyRegis link ---
>
> There certainly was, but are we sure there is still? Anecdotes
on these boards suggest otherwise.
>
--- End Quote ---
After effectively maxing out the season ticket sales the club
opened the waiting list again. They've contacted a small number
of people who'd expressed an interest about what appears to be a
small number of season ticket cancellations.
It's a bit of a reach to turn that into "there's no waiting
list" unless you think the club has outright lied about it.
#Post#: 110652--------------------------------------------------
Re: 10 team league.....
DIR By: Quinky
Date: July 3, 2023, 9:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> Yes, but in that case they generally aim to keep the business
limping on with minimal investment and minimised losses. Quins’
owners have supported significant investment and losses over the
years. I doubt that the Stoop site is more valuable than the
£33m in debt Quins reportedly have.
>
--- End Quote ---
I don't disagree with the first point, but I wouldn't be at all
surprised if the land were to attract a higher figure at sale.
#Post#: 110654--------------------------------------------------
Re: 10 team league.....
DIR By: Quinky
Date: July 3, 2023, 9:31 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: RodneyRegis link ---
>
> Yeah I don't really remember, but it rings a bell that they
changed the company structure some years ago so that the
interest on the loans from the owners is recognised elsewhere
within the group.
>
> As far as I can work out, the club owes shedloads to the
parent company, and shedloads more to HMRC for deferred tax
payments, and another shedload to the govt for Covid loans.
>
> Now, if we had no debt, we might just about break even. But we
do have debt. Lots and lots and lots. So any profit goes towards
starting to service the debt - ie paying off some interest, not
the capital.
>
> "But we all know there was a waiting list last season, there's
a waiting list this season"
>
> There certainly was, but are we sure there is still? Anecdotes
on these boards suggest otherwise.
>
--- End Quote ---
Would be interesting to see a breakdown of the debt to HMRC.
Must be PAYE and/or VAT, as there can't be any corporation tax
🤷
#Post#: 110655--------------------------------------------------
Re: 10 team league.....
DIR By: poorfour
Date: July 3, 2023, 9:34 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Prime land in Twickenham would fetch a tidy sum compared to the
initial purchase of the club - no arguing with that. But pumping
£33m+ of money into it over the years isn't a great strategy to
realise the value.
Maybe it's all being done as a massive tax write off. If that
were the case, I'd love to have that problem meself.
#Post#: 110657--------------------------------------------------
Re: 10 team league.....
DIR By: Quinky
Date: July 4, 2023, 1:14 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> Prime land in Twickenham would fetch a tidy sum compared to
the initial purchase of the club - no arguing with that. But
pumping £33m+ of money into it over the years isn't a great
strategy to realise the value.
>
> Maybe it's all being done as a massive tax write off. If that
were the case, I'd love to have that problem meself.
>
--- End Quote ---
You should ask Deadly about that 😉
#Post#: 110659--------------------------------------------------
Re: 10 team league.....
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: July 4, 2023, 4:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
In West London, an acre of land was valued at 7.75 million
British pounds, up from 3.25 million British pounds in 2021.13
Oct 2022
#Post#: 110660--------------------------------------------------
Re: 10 team league.....
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: July 4, 2023, 4:14 am
---------------------------------------------------------
At a guess I'd say that the Quins stadium was one hectare but I
dont know how much other land comes within the demesne of Quins.
If you have planning permission as well it is exponentially more
valuable.
*****************************************************
Page 6 of 7
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page