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       #Post#: 110640--------------------------------------------------
       Re: 10 team league.....
   DIR By: TomBuckQuin
       Date: July 3, 2023, 3:49 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: RodneyRegis link ---
       >
       > the financial reality is that if owners want to buy rugby
       clubs, they have to subsidise the game. They aren't going to
       make money, and to suddenly decided you want to mitigate losses
       when the people who come to watch can't afford massive price
       hikes is just idiotic.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Except Quins are on the brink of breaking even / turning profit
       year-on-year now - so if you're the owners, would you not be
       telling the CEO to convert that foundation into the largest
       margin possible in order to service the club's debts? That's
       Laurie's job don't forget - to make the club a profitable
       business. Do you really think these numbers have been plucked
       out of nowhere? No - if they think people will pay those prices,
       they will charge them. As brutal as it is, if that prices me
       out, there will be someone else who comes in and takes my seat.
       Of course there's a balance - if they charge too much and price
       too many people out, they're less likely to replace that many.
       But we all know there was a waiting list last season, there's a
       waiting list this season - so clearly the demand is there. From
       a business point of view, a price hike is a no-brainer. None of
       us like it, but it's naive to think it was ever going to be any
       other way.
       #Post#: 110647--------------------------------------------------
       Re: 10 team league.....
   DIR By: JammyGit
       Date: July 3, 2023, 8:05 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I'm pretty sure that there's some serious debt being shuffled
       around that makes us look healthier than we are, e.g.
  HTML https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/status/1671136289934934016
       and
       I'm fairly sure Rodney's talked about this before.
       I don't think we're on the brink of turning a profit YOY any
       time soon
       #Post#: 110649--------------------------------------------------
       Re: 10 team league.....
   DIR By: RodneyRegis
       Date: July 3, 2023, 9:02 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Yeah I don't really remember, but it rings a bell that they
       changed the company structure some years ago so that the
       interest on the loans from the owners is recognised elsewhere
       within the group.
       As far as I can work out, the club owes shedloads to the parent
       company, and shedloads more to HMRC for deferred tax payments,
       and another shedload to the govt for Covid loans.
       Now, if we had no debt, we might just about break even. But we
       do have debt. Lots and lots and lots. So any profit goes towards
       starting to service the debt - ie paying off some interest, not
       the capital.
       "But we all know there was a waiting list last season, there's a
       waiting list this season"
       There certainly was, but are we sure there is still? Anecdotes
       on these boards suggest otherwise.
       #Post#: 110650--------------------------------------------------
       Re: 10 team league.....
   DIR By: poorfour
       Date: July 3, 2023, 9:24 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: RodneyRegis link ---
       >
       > There certainly was, but are we sure there is still? Anecdotes
       on these boards suggest otherwise.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       After effectively maxing out the season ticket sales the club
       opened the waiting list again. They've contacted a small number
       of people who'd expressed an interest about what appears to be a
       small number of season ticket cancellations.
       It's a bit of a reach to turn that into "there's no waiting
       list" unless you think the club has outright lied about it.
       #Post#: 110652--------------------------------------------------
       Re: 10 team league.....
   DIR By: Quinky
       Date: July 3, 2023, 9:29 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: poorfour link ---
       >
       > Yes, but in that case they generally aim to keep the business
       limping on with minimal investment and minimised losses. Quins’
       owners have supported significant investment and losses over the
       years. I doubt that the Stoop site is more valuable than the
       £33m in debt Quins reportedly have.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I don't disagree with the first point, but I wouldn't be at all
       surprised if the land were to attract a higher figure at sale.
       #Post#: 110654--------------------------------------------------
       Re: 10 team league.....
   DIR By: Quinky
       Date: July 3, 2023, 9:31 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: RodneyRegis link ---
       >
       > Yeah I don't really remember, but it rings a bell that they
       changed the company structure some years ago so that the
       interest on the loans from the owners is recognised elsewhere
       within the group.
       >
       > As far as I can work out, the club owes shedloads to the
       parent company, and shedloads more to HMRC for deferred tax
       payments, and another shedload to the govt for Covid loans.
       >
       > Now, if we had no debt, we might just about break even. But we
       do have debt. Lots and lots and lots. So any profit goes towards
       starting to service the debt - ie paying off some interest, not
       the capital.
       >
       > "But we all know there was a waiting list last season, there's
       a waiting list this season"
       >
       > There certainly was, but are we sure there is still? Anecdotes
       on these boards suggest otherwise.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Would be interesting to see a breakdown of the debt to HMRC.
       Must be PAYE and/or VAT, as there can't be any corporation tax
       🤷
       #Post#: 110655--------------------------------------------------
       Re: 10 team league.....
   DIR By: poorfour
       Date: July 3, 2023, 9:34 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Prime land in Twickenham would fetch a tidy sum compared to the
       initial purchase of the club - no arguing with that. But pumping
       £33m+ of money into it over the years isn't a great strategy to
       realise the value.
       Maybe it's all being done as a massive tax write off. If that
       were the case, I'd love to have that problem meself.
       #Post#: 110657--------------------------------------------------
       Re: 10 team league.....
   DIR By: Quinky
       Date: July 4, 2023, 1:14 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: poorfour link ---
       >
       > Prime land in Twickenham would fetch a tidy sum compared to
       the initial purchase of the club - no arguing with that. But
       pumping £33m+ of money into it over the years isn't a great
       strategy to realise the value.
       >
       > Maybe it's all being done as a massive tax write off. If that
       were the case, I'd love to have that problem meself.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       You should ask Deadly about that 😉
       #Post#: 110659--------------------------------------------------
       Re: 10 team league.....
   DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
       Date: July 4, 2023, 4:01 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       In West London, an acre of land was valued at 7.75 million
       British pounds, up from 3.25 million British pounds in 2021.13
       Oct 2022
       #Post#: 110660--------------------------------------------------
       Re: 10 team league.....
   DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
       Date: July 4, 2023, 4:14 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       At a guess I'd say that the Quins stadium was one hectare but I
       dont know how much other land comes within the demesne of Quins.
       If you have planning permission as well it is exponentially more
       valuable.
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