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#Post#: 109830--------------------------------------------------
Re: Irish
DIR By: Lane247
Date: June 7, 2023, 1:51 am
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At this rate we could win the Prem again soon, only needs
another 8 teams to go pop!
How can we lose 25% of our top tier in less than 12 months, the
situation makes no sense.
Maybe the way forward and I know that this is not a popular
idea, however get all clubs to live within their income, yes
that means we will lose players abroad but if we carry on we
will lose the Premiership or there will be a European super
league with only a few English clubs in it.
Another option is a proper European salary cap but why would the
top Euro clubs accept that.
Sadly I can’t see RFU/PR or anyone getting this back to a
healthy state, we are going down the route of Football,
millionaires are not rich enough anymore.
Sh*t day and sad for all at LI
#Post#: 109831--------------------------------------------------
Re: Irish
DIR By: KentQuin
Date: June 7, 2023, 1:56 am
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Really feel for all involved with Irish.
Let's hope there's no further domino effect. Less than 10 sides
and the viability of a league season is really in question.
Premiership Rugby and the RFU really need to get their s**t
together and set out a clear vision for elite rugby in England.
The game is effectively on life support. Leadership is needed.
#Post#: 109832--------------------------------------------------
Re: Irish
DIR By: MrSoloDolo
Date: June 7, 2023, 2:07 am
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Clearly rugby is not sustainable and losing 25% of the league in
one season is a massive failure. Sad day for the sport which is
massively under pressure now. How can it continue and grow and
capture a wider audience when our top flight domestic league is
in shambles....
#Post#: 109834--------------------------------------------------
Re: Irish
DIR By: MrSoloDolo
Date: June 7, 2023, 2:21 am
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Players to try and sign:
Henry Arundell
Ben Loader
tom Pearson
Benhard Janse Van Rensburg
Chandler Cunningham-South
What other players could make a good contribution?
#Post#: 109836--------------------------------------------------
Re: Irish
DIR By: poorfour
Date: June 7, 2023, 2:43 am
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--- Quote from: Lane247 link ---
>
> At this rate we could win the Prem again soon, only needs
another 8 teams to go pop!
> How can we lose 25% of our top tier in less than 12 months,
the situation makes no sense.
>
> Maybe the way forward and I know that this is not a popular
idea, however get all clubs to live within their income, yes
that means we will lose players abroad but if we carry on we
will lose the Premiership or there will be a European super
league with only a few English clubs in it.
>
--- End Quote ---
As I understand it, the issue is less about income than about
debt. Pretty much all the clubs run at a loss, and have
multimillion pounds of debt to their owners. I don’t believe
many of them are even able to service the debt - the interest
just gets rolled up and added to the loans.
Pre-COVID, a few clubs were edging towards profitability at an
operating level (aka, living within their income) , but lockdown
took away most of their income while leaving most of their
costs, so debt spiralled massively.
Coming out of lockdown, clubs and their owners had to reset
their expectations about how much debt the clubs would have to
carry and for how long, with the added complication of having to
work out how to pay deferred tax and Government COVID loans
ahead of paying down their debts to their owners.
As far as I can see, where the clubs have folded it’s because
the owners either ran out of money or wanted to cut their
losses, but either way couldn’t find a buyer who would commit to
take on enough of the debt (and guarantee to keep funding the
club).
Quins are lucky in that we seem to have very deep pocketed and
patient owners. I’m not sure how other clubs stand.
But I’d look carefully at what’s being reported - Exeter and
Leicester have made big transactions to shore up their finances,
but in each case the owner or backer has had the money and has
been prepared to stump it up.
#Post#: 109837--------------------------------------------------
Re: Irish
DIR By: SunburyQuin
Date: June 7, 2023, 2:50 am
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--- Quote from: MaidstoneQuin link ---
>
> Rivalries and other feelings opinions aside, this is a very
sad day for rugby. To lose 3 clubs in quick succession, ripping
the heart out of players careers, and fans dreams and traditions
is terrible. I just hope there’s a complete overhaul of how
things are from top to bottom, but fear this won’t be the last
story this year of a top rugby team going under.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes - to lose 3 clubs in less than 12 months. Feel so sorry for
Wasps, Irish and especially Warriors (the club of my original
home area). I know I have brought it up in the recent past; but
how about promoting Ealing and Jersey (forget all the red tape
about grounds capacity) ???
#Post#: 109838--------------------------------------------------
Re: Irish
DIR By: A222Quin
Date: June 7, 2023, 3:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: MrSoloDolo link ---
>
> Players to try and sign:
>
> Henry Arundell
> Ben Loader
> tom Pearson
> Benhard Janse Van Rensburg
> Chandler Cunningham-South
>
> What other players could make a good contribution?
>
--- End Quote ---
CCS and Van Rensburg would probably be my pick from that lot.
Arundell to Bath is supposedly a done deal while Pearson is
expected to be either Saints or Bath.
#Post#: 109839--------------------------------------------------
Re: Irish
DIR By: never sleep
Date: June 7, 2023, 3:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> Who else do you think will go under?
>
--- End Quote ---
It was reported that Gloucester took the biggest Covid loan of
£15 million.
As far as I know, this needs to be paid back over 10 years. I
don't know what the interest is.
But - as far as I know, there are some odd conditions on the
loan - e.g. clubs are not allowed cash windfalls under the loan
terms.
So - most clubs will likely run at a loss for the next 10 years.
But, basically, investors are going to be cautious of investing
money into Premiership clubs until the loans are paid off.
#Post#: 109840--------------------------------------------------
Re: Irish
DIR By: never sleep
Date: June 7, 2023, 3:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: MrSoloDolo link ---
>
> Players to try and sign:
>
> Henry Arundell
> Ben Loader
> tom Pearson
> Benhard Janse Van Rensburg
> Chandler Cunningham-South
>
> What other players could make a good contribution?
>
--- End Quote ---
In my opinion - don't spend money that we don't have.
#Post#: 109841--------------------------------------------------
Re: Irish
DIR By: Camquin
Date: June 7, 2023, 3:13 am
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Very few clubs were living within their means.
Some managed to break even, but only by inflating the book value
of the P-Shares - indicating that the accountants thought they
would generate more income in future, which mayor may not be the
case.
The thing I do not understand is that most clubs were earning
£10m from PRL (TV and central sponsors) £2m from RFU, £2m from
club sponsors, £6m events in the stadium (both rugby and
non-rugby) and £3m from their directors increasing their loan.
In lockdown, they lost most if not all the £6m and took out £10m
in loans to DCMS/Sport England repayable over 6 to 10 years at
2.5% interest.
This of course means that in future your outgoings increase by
more than a million, so either, the club needs to curb
expenditure, to find extra income or the directors need to put
that money in. as with all loans, they were trading cash now for
cash flow in future.
What I have not been able to work out, is whether the owners put
in less support over the lockdown period.
But the proximate cause has been unpaid HMRC debts, not DCMS.
The underlying issue is income £20m, expenditure £23m result
misery, to misquote Dickens.
Exacerbated by a year with only £14m income - but that only
hastened the demise.
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