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#Post#: 109721--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Asked ChatGPT How to evade the salary cap
DIR By: Marsile
Date: June 4, 2023, 3:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> Saracens outbid several teams including Tigers for Lewington,
and Irish weren't relegated when Saracens signed him. He was one
of the best players at the club.
>
> Imagine that, the uncapped Lewington chose to join the league
champions located just up the road from his house instead of
relocating to a team in steep decline in the East
Midlands.🙄
>
>
> Likewise, the blather about Singleton proves you still don't
get it. He was one of Worcs best players, getting England
recognition and Saracens signed him. Worcs were desperate to
keep him.
>
> Imagine that, the uncapped Singleton chose to join the club
he'd supported as a boy and graduated through their academy who
were multiple league and European champions located just up the
road from his family's house instead of remaining in a
relegation fodder team in steep decline in the West
Midlands.🙄
>
>
> Saracens have a huge number of capped players, including a
number of Lions with a ton of caps, at a time when no other side
in the league can manage to pay for all the players they want to
keep despite not having anywhere near as many of those expensive
players. Saracens are still benefiting from their blatant
financial cheating for which they were relegated - despite that
punishment, their squad is still utterly unlike every other.
Having lots more top quality players than any other team goes a
long way to explaining their success. Which is why they went to
such lengths to cheat in order to put together such a collection
in the first place.
>
> Imagine that, the perennial domestic league champions and
European cup winners get lots of their players picked by test
sides to play test rugby. 🙄
>
>
> And hey, Robshaw's finals record is superb, especially his
MOTM in the first Premiership final win against Tigers. Just a
magnificent all action display where he essentially played 7 and
10 at the same time from the guy twice voted Premiership Player
of the Year. But something something Jackson Wray. Something
something whataboutery that shows you have no clue.
>
> If you want to play Top Trumps with Chris Robshaw's club
achievements compared to Jackson Wray's then fire away.
😂
>
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 109722--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Asked ChatGPT How to evade the salary cap
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: June 4, 2023, 4:12 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Sure! Easy ones to begin with:
How many times has Jackson Wray won the premiership player of
the year award?
What's his record when captaining the team in finals?
How many times has he been relegated?
On Singleton, he'd already played for England in a non cap game
and gone on two tours, hence England recognition. He got his
first cap before he played his first Saracens game a la Billy
Vunipola. But of course this whole gish gallop of yours is
intended to argue a point never made - that fact is that
Saracens regularly managed to sign the top performers from rival
clubs (desperate to keep hold of them) while retaining both
their star studded collection of hugely experienced and
expensive top internationals. Lewington and Singleton fit the
bill.
Saracens just don't seem to have to rely on inexperienced
players and plug gaps like anyone else while maintaining a squad
absolutely stuffed with internationals. The Lions and
50+-cappers alone make them an outlier, even before you add in
the panoply of other international players and their wages.
Given Saracens are known salary cap cheats, even if they are
legal now it seems inarguably true that they continue to benefit
from that cheating. There's just no way a Saracens that didn't
smash the salary cap for years wouldn't have had to either wave
goodbye to a few of those home grown Lions or forget about
signing top first team players from rivals.
No matter how many denials you throw up, the facts speak for
themselves on this one.
#Post#: 109723--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Asked ChatGPT How to evade the salary cap
DIR By: Marsile
Date: June 4, 2023, 4:21 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> Sure! Easy ones to begin with:
>
> How many times has Jackson Wray won the premiership player of
the year award?
>
> What's his record when captaining the team in finals?
>
> How many times has he been relegated?
>
>
> On Singleton, he'd already played for England in a non cap
game and gone on two tours, hence England recognition. He got
his first cap before he played his first Saracens game a la
Billy Vunipola. But of course this whole gish gallop of yours is
intended to argue a point never made - that fact is that
Saracens regularly managed to sign the top performers from rival
clubs (desperate to keep hold of them) while retaining both
their star studded collection of hugely experienced and
expensive top internationals. Lewington and Singleton fit the
bill.
>
> Saracens just don't seem to have to rely on inexperienced
players and plug gaps like anyone else while maintaining a squad
absolutely stuffed with internationals. The Lions and
50+-cappers alone make them an outlier, even before you add in
the panoply of other international players and their wages.
>
> Given Saracens are known salary cap cheats, even if they are
legal now it seems inarguably true that they continue to benefit
from that cheating. There's just no way a Saracens that didn't
smash the salary cap for years wouldn't have had to either wave
goodbye to a few of those home grown Lions or forget about
signing top first team players from rivals.
>
> No matter how many denials you throw up, the facts speak for
themselves on this one.
>
--- End Quote ---
Theo Dan is inexperienced.
Theo McFarland is inexperienced
Manu Vunipola is inexperienced.
Ben Earl is inexperienced.
Nick Isiekwe is inexperienced.
Jackson Wray was inexperienced.
Alex Goode was inexperienced.
Nick Tompkins was inexperienced.
Maro Itoje was inexperienced.
Jamie George was inexperienced.
Owen Farrell was inexperienced.
Etc etc etc...
You'll catch on eventually.
#Post#: 109724--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Asked ChatGPT How to evade the salary cap
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: June 4, 2023, 4:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Phew, lucky for Saracens these players only ever sign one
contract I guess.
(Ben Earl is inexperienced? LOL! He has over 110 appearances for
the club having made his premiership debut in 2017, another
20-odd from his Bristol time, and has 13 England caps on top of
that. Just a spectacular example of how wildly skewed your views
are on this, and how badly you know your own team)
#Post#: 109725--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Asked ChatGPT How to evade the salary cap
DIR By: Marsile
Date: June 4, 2023, 5:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> Phew, lucky for Saracens these players only ever sign one
contract I guess.
>
> (Ben Earl is inexperienced? LOL! He has over 110 appearances
for the club having made his premiership debut in 2017, another
20-odd from his Bristol time, and has 13 England caps on top of
that. Just a spectacular example of how wildly skewed your views
are on this, and how badly you know your own team)
>
--- End Quote ---
And your post is yet another example of your limbo like talent
for reading. Everything goes over your head.
No club suffered an injustice because Ben Earl is a great
Saracens player. No club suffers an injustice if he chooses to
stay at Saracens. Meanwhile, other clubs and England are stacked
full of coaches who learned the value of culture and excellence
at Saracens. Saracens academy graduate and current England
player Max Malins leaves to join Bristol after an exceptional
display in the Premiership final. Let's see how his career and
development goes after a few years playing for Pat Lam, I'm
going to stick my neck out and say he regresses - what say you?
#Post#: 109726--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Asked ChatGPT How to evade the salary cap
DIR By: FatQuin
Date: June 4, 2023, 5:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hopefully nothing so you troll off back to your own board.
#Post#: 109727--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Asked ChatGPT How to evade the salary cap
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: June 4, 2023, 5:34 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Marsile link ---
>
>
> And your post is yet another example of your limbo like talent
for reading. Everything goes over your head.
>
> No club suffered an injustice because Ben Earl is a great
Saracens player. No club suffers an injustice if he chooses to
stay at Saracens. Meanwhile, other clubs and England are stacked
full of coaches who learned the value of culture and excellence
at Saracens. Saracens academy graduate and current England
player Max Malins leaves to join Bristol after an exceptional
display in the Premiership final. Let's see how his career and
development goes after a few years playing for Pat Lam, I'm
going to stick my neck out and say he regresses - what say you?
>
--- End Quote ---
Every club suffers an injustice by Saracens being able to keep
Earl plus Itoje plus Mako plus Billy plus George plus Isiekwe
plus Farrell plus Goode plus Tompkins plus Taylor plus Maitland
plus Daly etc etc while still being able to poach prized players
from other teams, when they all cannot hope to keep hold of a
full team with fewer internationals and have to make do with
having lots more cheaper players and still losing their best
when they don't want to. Every other team has to balance their
squads. Every other team has a first XV littered with uncapped
players, youngsters, and honest journeymen, because that's the
financial reality for every other team.
I can't see the future so no idea how Malins will do, but his
last stint at Bristol saw him absolutely excel and catapulted
him into the England ranks.
Everyone will have noted that yet again you refused to engage
with the point made about Ben Earl's "inexperience". This is
your argument in a nutshell: a mass of whataboutery littered
with ignorance and flat out lies, where as soon as your nonsense
is exposed you move on to the next senseless bad faith argument.
#Post#: 109728--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Asked ChatGPT How to evade the salary cap
DIR By: Marsile
Date: June 4, 2023, 5:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> Every club suffers an injustice by Saracens being able to keep
Earl plus Itoje plus Mako plus Billy plus George plus Isiekwe
plus Farrell plus Goode plus Tompkins plus Taylor plus Maitland
plus Daly etc etc while still being able to poach prized players
from other teams, when they all cannot hope to keep hold of a
full team with fewer internationals and have to make do with
having lots more cheaper players and still losing their best
when they don't want to. Every other team has to balance their
squads. Every other team has a first XV littered with uncapped
players, youngsters, and honest journeymen, because that's the
financial reality for every other team.
>
>
> I can't see the future so no idea how Malins will do, but his
last stint at Bristol saw him absolutely excel and catapulted
him into the England ranks.
>
> Everyone will have noted that yet again you refused to engage
with the point made about Ben Earl's "inexperience". This is
your argument in a nutshell: a mass of whataboutery littered
with ignorance and flat out lies, where as soon as your nonsense
is exposed you move on to the next senseless bad faith argument.
>
--- End Quote ---
Earl is relatively inexperienced.
I didn't pull you up on this line;
--- Quote ---
>
> Saracens just don't seem to have to rely on inexperienced
players
--- End Quote ---
Can I introduce you to Theo Dan and Toby Knight - both uncapped
English Saracens academy graduates in their first season. Both
played in the Premiership final.
They joined the nine Saracens academy graduates who were in the
starting XV plus Eroni Mawi, a Fijian prop recruited from an
Asian league, Callum Hunter-Hill, an uncapped Scottish lock,
Christian Judge, an uncapped journeyman prop. Theo McFarland, a
Samoan recruited from the MLR was injured.
This is your argument in a nutshell: a mass of whataboutery
littered with ignorance and flat out lies, where as soon as your
nonsense is exposed you move on to the next senseless bad faith
argument.
#Post#: 109729--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Asked ChatGPT How to evade the salary cap
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: June 4, 2023, 6:14 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The guy who made his debut 6 years ago and has played in over
130 club games and is a former premiership player of the year
and has 13 England caps is "relatively" inexperienced? To who?
Half the Saracens squad, sure, but to everyone else he's very
experienced.
Theo Dan is a cracking player but Saracens don't have to rely on
him in that squad. Because when fit, Jamie George is available.
Jamie George is a double centurion for Saracens, has like 77
England caps and four Lions Test caps. The sort of player that a
team could have maybe two of under the cap while making
adjustments elsewhere.
But just for laughs, Saracens have several of these. And their
"reliance" on Theo Dan is that he's an excellent young player
behind Jamie George, and if he wasn't good enough then Saracens
still have the USA international Pifileti and the guy with 90+
club appearances in Woolstencroft.
Tony Knight was there because the massively experienced
many-capped England international Billy Vunipola was injured.
Congratulations for pointing out you have some uncapped bench
players, though. Definitely makes up for the disparity seen in
the premiership final.
#Post#: 109730--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Asked ChatGPT How to evade the salary cap
DIR By: Man From LA
Date: June 4, 2023, 6:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: FatQuin link ---
>
> Hopefully nothing so you troll off back to your own board.
>
--- End Quote ---
I'm not sure they like him either. A fellow Salarycens
glory-hunter on the GP final thread on Planet Rugby forum
remarked (about Marsile/Observer/Hoof/Toga's posts) that it's no
wonder their club is so unpopular.
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