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#Post#: 109921--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Asked ChatGPT How to evade the salary cap
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: June 8, 2023, 12:26 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Marsile link ---
>
> McFarland needed intensive extra coaching to get up to the
standard required to play in the Premiership. That's straight
from somebody who spoke to the Saracens coaches. That's good
enough for me. Clearly good enough for McFarland as well. He's a
fast learner, specifically about 4 months.
>
--- End Quote ---
He played in the Premiership 2 months after joining Saracens
though?
4 months of coaching required to start matches for Saracens
doesn't seem like a lot for a guy who'd never played in this
league or one of the same standard, and speaks to his natural
talent. He definitely hit the ground running - from joining with
little experience to being a first teamer everyone was raving
about in a few months!
Would still love to hear the podcast or whatever it was you
heard this from, though. It sounds like a fascinating story
regardless.
#Post#: 109923--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Asked ChatGPT How to evade the salary cap
DIR By: Observer
Date: June 8, 2023, 12:56 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
In fairness Theo McFarland is a once in a generation player. He
was a punt, all be it a good one. He's a phenomenal athlete, and
even played internationally at Basketball. Back to my point...
if sarries payed him 50k a season to come to us from Dallas
Jackals no one would be suprised... before they saw him play.
Prior to his nasty injury if you watched him you'd never believe
he was a 50k player. Maybe 5x that.
And that's sort of my point.
People's perception of a players value increases while they are
mid contract. Either through coaching or age or experience they
become more valuable than perhaps they are being paid or, would
cost to replace.
It would cost a fortune to assemble a side, however a side
evolves and develops and appears to be more expensive than the
sum of its parts. Take your own career for example. If you were
to leave would you be less expensive to replace? I doubt it.
I don't know Marcus Smiths history, but suspect he was being
paid way less in his breakthrough season than other fans thought
he was worth.
#Post#: 109924--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Asked ChatGPT How to evade the salary cap
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: June 8, 2023, 1:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Observer link ---
>
> In fairness Theo McFarland is a once in a generation player.
He was a punt, all be it a good one. He's a phenomenal athlete,
and even played internationally at Basketball. Back to my
point... if sarries payed him 50k a season to come to us from
Dallas Jackals no one would be suprised... before they saw him
play. Prior to his nasty injury if you watched him you'd never
believe he was a 50k player. Maybe 5x that.
>
> And that's sort of my point.
>
> People's perception of a players value increases while they
are mid contract. Either through coaching or age or experience
they become more valuable than perhaps they are being paid or,
would cost to replace.
>
> It would cost a fortune to assemble a side, however a side
evolves and develops and appears to be more expensive than the
sum of its parts. Take your own career for example. If you were
to leave would you be less expensive to replace? I doubt it.
>
> I don't know Marcus Smiths history, but suspect he was being
paid way less in his breakthrough season than other fans thought
he was worth.
>
--- End Quote ---
I think fans understand how contracts work. If McFarland comes
back and plays like he did when he broke through, at that sort
of level consistently, then he's going to get a much bigger
contract next time. How big depends on a lot of factors,
including how much Saracens fear losing him.
The questions over Saracens are how they manage to develop and
retain a large group of world class players while also
supplementing them with a similar standard of player in other
positions, and keeping hold of really promising young talent and
a bunch of internationals on top of that. Everyone else is
making sacrifices and having to make really hard calls.
#Post#: 109927--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Asked ChatGPT How to evade the salary cap
DIR By: Observer
Date: June 8, 2023, 1:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I'd say looking at who's left and who's come in since the cap
beaches proves a couple of things... a) something was clearly
going on and b) Saracens are now dealing with the same issues as
everyone else. 11 out 4 in this year shows that.
Leavers post punishment include (and this is off the top of my
head) Figallo Singleton Carre Lamositelle Kruis Skelton Rhodes
Kpoku Wigglesworth Spencer Williams Barritt Gallagher not to
mention others, big name imports? Tizard for sure Riccioni too..
West and Willis to come. That's a huge trim on the squad
whatever way you look at it.
#Post#: 109928--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Asked ChatGPT How to evade the salary cap
DIR By: Marsile
Date: June 8, 2023, 2:02 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> I think fans understand how contracts work. If McFarland comes
back and plays like he did when he broke through, at that sort
of level consistently, then he's going to get a much bigger
contract next time. How big depends on a lot of factors,
including how much Saracens fear losing him.
>
> The questions over Saracens are how they manage to develop and
retain a large group of world class players while also
supplementing them with a similar standard of player in other
positions, and keeping hold of really promising young talent and
a bunch of internationals on top of that. Everyone else is
making sacrifices and having to make really hard calls.
>
--- End Quote ---
The players could leave Saracens and not win anything. Look at
Ben Spencer, he's won nothing in a 'star-studded' Bath team. I
daresay Malins won't win anything with Bristol either. You can
scoff and snort but clearly Saracens have a very impressive
coaching environment that players perform very well in. That's
got huge value to a player, especially if they can get the huge
England money on top. How much England money had Spencer missed
out on - £500k+? I doubt Saracens are paying Tizard any more
than Quins offered him, I wouldn't be surprised if it less but
he gets to play with Itoje, Farrell, George etc, work with
coaches like McCall, Shaw and Peel. In short, he knows that
he'll improve with Saracens, become a much better player and win
things.
#Post#: 109930--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Asked ChatGPT How to evade the salary cap
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: June 8, 2023, 2:17 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Observer link ---
>
> I'd say looking at who's left and who's come in since the cap
beaches proves a couple of things... a) something was clearly
going on and b) Saracens are now dealing with the same issues as
everyone else. 11 out 4 in this year shows that.
>
> Leavers post punishment include (and this is off the top of my
head) Figallo Singleton Carre Lamositelle Kruis Skelton Rhodes
Kpoku Wigglesworth Spencer Williams Barritt Gallagher not to
mention others, big name imports? Tizard for sure Riccioni too..
West and Willis to come. That's a huge trim on the squad
whatever way you look at it.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, like I said to Toga I don't think it's obvious that they
are still cheating. However being able to have the squad they do
right now would be impossible for any team, including Saracens
themselves had they not cheated to build a ridiculous squad
while keeping hold of everyone for years. It's that big a
difference with other squads right now, no matter how much Toga
tries to convince himself that Tizard signed for no more money
than the team that he won the title with were offering him.
#Post#: 109931--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Asked ChatGPT How to evade the salary cap
DIR By: raedarius
Date: June 8, 2023, 2:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
It's almost a religious level of faith isn't it...?
--- Quote from: Marsile link ---
>
>
> The players could leave Saracens and not win anything. Look at
Ben Spencer, he's won nothing in a 'star-studded' Bath team. I
daresay Malins won't win anything with Bristol either. You can
scoff and snort but clearly Saracens have a very impressive
coaching environment that players perform very well in. That's
got huge value to a player, especially if they can get the huge
England money on top. How much England money had Spencer missed
out on - £500k+? I doubt Saracens are paying Tizard any more
than Quins offered him, I wouldn't be surprised if it less but
he gets to play with Itoje, Farrell, George etc, work with
coaches like McCall, Shaw and Peel. In short, he knows that
he'll improve with Saracens, become a much better player and win
things.
>
--- End Quote ---
It's almost a religious level of faith isn't it...?
#Post#: 109932--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Asked ChatGPT How to evade the salary cap
DIR By: Marsile
Date: June 8, 2023, 2:42 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> Yes, like I said to Toga I don't think it's obvious that they
are still cheating. However being able to have the squad they do
right now would be impossible for any team, including Saracens
themselves had they not cheated to build a ridiculous squad
while keeping hold of everyone for years. It's that big a
difference with other squads right now, no matter how much Toga
tries to convince himself that Tizard signed for no more money
than the team that he won the title with were offering him.
>
--- End Quote ---
Well tell us then, how much are Saracens paying Hugh Tizard
compared to how much did Quins offer him to stay? No point in
keeping it to yourself is there. You keep throwing out
accusations that x must be being payed y at Saracens so tell us!
#Post#: 109933--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Asked ChatGPT How to evade the salary cap
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: June 8, 2023, 2:54 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Marsile link ---
>
>
> Well tell us then, how much are Saracens paying Hugh Tizard
compared to how much did Quins offer him to stay? No point in
keeping it to yourself is there. You keep throwing out
accusations that x must be being payed y at Saracens so tell us!
>
--- End Quote ---
LOL
I mean, Quins said they couldn't afford to match Saracens offer
and pay for everyone else, and they certainly wouldn't have been
offering him an Academy contract which is what he was on before.
A few players made it clear it was good money. And Tizard was
leaving the actual champions who he started for in the final,
who'd just won plaudits for their incredible style of play and
were making everyone sit up and take notice
But sure, Saracens definitely didn't out bid Quins. Definitely
normal for an Academy product to jump ship from the team that
produced him, trusted him, and won the title with him in his
breakthrough season in order to join the team that hadn't won
anything for years and had just come back from being relegated
for massive amounts of cheating, without any extra financial
incentive on the table.
Definitely a normal thing to argue.
Incredible.
Still waiting on the podcast link btw
#Post#: 109934--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Asked ChatGPT How to evade the salary cap
DIR By: Marsile
Date: June 8, 2023, 3:33 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> ...in order to join the team that hadn't won anything for
years
>
--- End Quote ---
History not really your thing is it?!
Do you normally listen to Eggchasers, do you know who Tim Cocker
is?
The talk at the time with regards Tizard is that Quins had spent
heavily on Christian Scotland-Williamson which restricted what
they could offer a rookie. Tizard also wanted to join Saracens
for all the reasons I've set out that you ascribe absolutely
zero value to...
--- Quote ---
> “It was a tough decision because there are a lot of boys there
[at Quins] who I went through the junior academy with, then
lived in the academy house with. Some of my closest mates are
still there. In terms of rugby I was excited for a new
challenge, and a fresh start.
>
> “Maro has been back for a few weeks, it’s been nice to pick up
a few things [from him] in a short space of time. That was one
of the big reasons [for the move], to learn off the best lock in
the world. It will be good to pick bits out of his game.
>
> “I made it clear when I met Sarries that I wanted to play a
lot. I played a lot of rugby last year and I’m at my best when
doing that. So it’s about learning the system and I can’t wait
to get stuck in.”
--- End Quote ---
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