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ComeAllWithin (Harlequins Rugby)
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#Post#: 109250--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: BaaBass v World XV
DIR By: poorfour
Date: May 24, 2023, 5:08 am
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So Quinky, you think we should be tolerant of Folau spouting
stuff that is actually harmful of other people, but not tolerant
of people calling him on it? Because that's what your post
amounts to.
The so-called "paradox of tolerance" is a pretty well
established principle. In order to have tolerance, you have to
be intolerant of intolerance. There's an argument that it's not
actually a paradox - being openly intolerant of another group is
breaching a social contract and it can and should have
consequences.
And yes, we should be intolerant of preachers who spout the same
nonsense - most of them don't have the same public platform that
Folau does, but we should be equally intolerant of the ones who
do have that kind of voice. But there are also plenty of priests
who do preach tolerance or at least don't throw these views
around openly.
#Post#: 109251--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: BaaBass v World XV
DIR By: Bod
Date: May 24, 2023, 5:13 am
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--- Quote from: Brown Bottle link ---
>
> Do you have trouble reading?
>
--- End Quote ---
Indeed
I guess the implication is, if he weren't playing the RFU
wouldn't have bothered with this gesture?
#Post#: 109253--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: BaaBass v World XV
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: May 24, 2023, 5:23 am
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--- Quote from: Bod link ---
>
> Indeed
> I guess the implication is, if he weren't playing the RFU
wouldn't have bothered with this gesture?
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, it may well have prompted the decision.
#Post#: 109260--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: BaaBass v World XV
DIR By: poorfour
Date: May 24, 2023, 7:26 am
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Changing the subject a little … Marler has featured prominently
in the BaaBaas advertising, isn’t injured as far as we know but
hasn’t been anywhere near the squad.
I wonder if that’s because he’s one of the players Borthwick has
put a hold on. Or if it’s because they thought putting him on
the same pitch as Folau could lead to a diplomatic incident.
#Post#: 109263--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: BaaBass v World XV
DIR By: poorfour
Date: May 24, 2023, 8:12 am
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[quote="Tom Ilube, RFU Chair"]"...as we approach Pride month, it
is important to acknowledge that people from the LGBTQ+
community continue to face discrimination and exclusion in all
walks of life, sport included.
"The Barbarians have often made Twickenham their home over its
130+ year history. But we understand that many people from the
LGBTQ+ community and their allies feel unwelcome and
disheartened by the appeared acceptance of anti-LGBTQ+
viewpoints on the pitch.[/quote]
HTML https://www.englandrugby.com/news/article/rfu-supports-the-lgbtq-community?fbclid=IwAR15KksuRc_Mgg0AAQh6dS_OrqKMNW891fCBpGeGPtz_XgUUMZpP5flHhjY
#Post#: 109268--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: BaaBass v World XV
DIR By: Quinky
Date: May 24, 2023, 8:47 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> So Quinky, you think we should be tolerant of Folau spouting
stuff that is actually harmful of other people, but not tolerant
of people calling him on it? Because that's what your post
amounts to.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
How is it harmful?
#Post#: 109269--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: BaaBass v World XV
DIR By: Quinky
Date: May 24, 2023, 8:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: dr_miles link ---
>
> Yet your identical double standard is that people should stop
expressing their opinions. Odd.
>
--- End Quote ---
Not at all. I merely pointed out that it would be nice if, when
a rugby player is on a rugby pitch playing rugby, people could
focus on... his rugby.
How would you feel if, whenever Quins are playing, people talk
about Joe Marler's issues with violence at home, or DC's drink
issues? Or how do you feel when, if ever there's any kind of
rugby scandal, people bring up Bloodgate?
Folau has views that you don't like. Oh well. The world moves
on.
#Post#: 109272--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: BaaBass v World XV
DIR By: Quanks
Date: May 24, 2023, 9:21 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> How would you feel if, whenever Quins are playing, people talk
about Joe Marler's issues with violence at home, or DC's drink
issues?
>
--- End Quote ---
Both suffered consequences and have apologised and tried to make
things better. I also think the wording about "violence at home"
is a bit iffy as it implies to me that a person was hit rather
than a kitchen smashed up.
Folau meanwhile has said that he would "absolutely" post the
messages again, and that he "knew it was going to be offensive
to a lot of people".
He's free to hold these views, he's free to tweet about them.
Other people are free to think poorly of him as a result and any
organisation that lets itself be associated with him, and to say
as much. To be honest I think Quins marketing tickets for the
game and celebrating Lewies involvement is a poor look when we
also have a Pride game.
You might be able to focus on his rugby, but for a gay rugby fan
in the stands he's a reminder that large parts of the world hate
you.
#Post#: 109273--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: BaaBass v World XV
DIR By: Quinky
Date: May 24, 2023, 9:27 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quanks link ---
>
> Both suffered consequences and have apologised and tried to
make things better. I also think the wording about "violence at
home" is a bit iffy as it implies to me that a person was hit
rather than a kitchen smashed up.
>
> Folau meanwhile has said that he would "absolutely" post the
messages again, and that he "knew it was going to be offensive
to a lot of people".
>
> He's free to hold these views, he's free to tweet about them.
Other people are free to think poorly of him as a result and any
organisation that lets itself be associated with him, and to say
as much. To be honest I think Quins marketing tickets for the
game and celebrating Lewies involvement is a poor look when we
also have a Pride game.
>
> You might be able to focus on his rugby, but for a gay rugby
fan in the stands he's a reminder that large parts of the world
hate you.
>
--- End Quote ---
He doesn't speak for "large parts of the world". He speaks for
himself.
And it seems there are a lot of people who seem to hate Folau.
#Post#: 109274--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: BaaBass v World XV
DIR By: Quanks
Date: May 24, 2023, 9:31 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> He doesn't speak for "large parts of the world". He speaks for
himself.
>
> And it seems there are a lot of people who seem to hate Folau.
>
--- End Quote ---
I said he's a reminder that large parts of the world hate gay
people, not that he speaks for large parts of the world. That's
clearly two different things.
I'm not sure I even follow what your second point is, but
posting dumb sh*t on Instagram is a choice, being gay isn't.
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