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#Post#: 109186--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: BaaBass v World XV
DIR By: dr_miles
Date: May 23, 2023, 10:25 am
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--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> And at what point do you think he should be left alone to
continue with his career, without people going on about his
views, and deciding they should boo whilst he does his job?
>
--- End Quote ---
It's just people expressing their opinions. Stop trying to
cancel them.
#Post#: 109208--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: BaaBass v World XV
DIR By: Quinky
Date: May 23, 2023, 1:20 pm
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--- Quote from: dr_miles link ---
>
> It's just people expressing their opinions. Stop trying to
cancel them.
>
--- End Quote ---
Exactly. He just expressed his opinions. He doesn't seem to be
doing it more. Leave the guy alone.
#Post#: 109217--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: BaaBass v World XV
DIR By: Bod
Date: May 23, 2023, 3:26 pm
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HTML https://www.planetrugby.com/news/steve-hansen-responds-to-decision-to-fly-pride-flag-at-twickenham-after-israel-folau-selection
Perchance Israel's participation has provoked this gesture?
#Post#: 109225--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: BaaBass v World XV
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: May 23, 2023, 5:15 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Bod link ---
>
>
HTML https://www.planetrugby.com/news/steve-hansen-responds-to-decision-to-fly-pride-flag-at-twickenham-after-israel-folau-selection
>
> Perchance Israel's participation has provoked this gesture?
>
--- End Quote ---
Do you have trouble reading?
--- Quote ---
> The Rugby Football Union (RFU) will fly the pride flag at
Twickenham on Sunday in response to Israel Folau being picked in
the World XV by Steve Hansen.
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 109228--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: BaaBass v World XV
DIR By: dr_miles
Date: May 23, 2023, 11:43 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> Exactly. He just expressed his opinions. He doesn't seem to be
doing it more. Leave the guy alone.
>
--- End Quote ---
I think you misunderstand me. People are just expressing their
opinions about his opinions. Leave them alone.
#Post#: 109229--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: BaaBass v World XV
DIR By: poorfour
Date: May 24, 2023, 12:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> And at what point do you think he should be left alone to
continue with his career, without people going on about his
views, and deciding they should boo whilst he does his job?
>
--- End Quote ---
Well, at one level, at the point when he stops breaching the
terms of his contract with those opinions. If you have signed an
employment contract that stipulates limits to what you can say
on social media and then repeatedly ignore those limits even
after being warned, then your employer is entirely within their
rights to apply whatever consequences the contract allows. Or to
terminate the contract.
At another level, if you allow that he’s allowed to make those
sort of statements, then you must also allow that other people
are allowed to respond to them in whatever way they see fit (as
long as it’s legal).
A general principle of the more tolerant society that we’ve
gradually built over the last century or so (which still has a
lot further to go) is that the one thing we can’t tolerate is
intolerance.
As a society, our social contract draws the line at targeting
classes of people for who they are rather than the opinions they
hold. Being LGBTQ is not, as far as we can tell, something that
LGBTQ people have a choice about; it’s who they are.
Expressing intolerant opinions about them is something that
Folau has a choice about, and the evidence is that public
figures expressing those sorts of opinions can and does cause
harm to the people subjected to them, either directly (because
hearing someone who may have been a sporting hero condemning you
for something you can’t change can be harmful to your mental
health) or indirectly (because hearing a public figure say these
things contributes to other people feeling they have a right to
persecute these minorities).
And on that basis, we shouldn’t feel obliged to just shut up and
let him play.
#Post#: 109234--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: BaaBass v World XV
DIR By: Quinky
Date: May 24, 2023, 2:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: dr_miles link ---
>
> I think you misunderstand me. People are just expressing their
opinions about his opinions. Leave them alone.
>
--- End Quote ---
But you don't they should, in turn, leave him alone for
expressing his opinions? Interesting double standard there.
#Post#: 109236--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: BaaBass v World XV
DIR By: Quinky
Date: May 24, 2023, 2:57 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> Well, at one level, at the point when he stops breaching the
terms of his contract with those opinions. If you have signed an
employment contract that stipulates limits to what you can say
on social media and then repeatedly ignore those limits even
after being warned, then your employer is entirely within their
rights to apply whatever consequences the contract allows. Or to
terminate the contract.
>
> At another level, if you allow that he’s allowed to make those
sort of statements, then you must also allow that other people
are allowed to respond to them in whatever way they see fit (as
long as it’s legal).
>
> A general principle of the more tolerant society that we’ve
gradually built over the last century or so (which still has a
lot further to go) is that the one thing we can’t tolerate is
intolerance.
>
> As a society, our social contract draws the line at targeting
classes of people for who they are rather than the opinions they
hold. Being LGBTQ is not, as far as we can tell, something that
LGBTQ people have a choice about; it’s who they are.
>
> Expressing intolerant opinions about them is something that
Folau has a choice about, and the evidence is that public
figures expressing those sorts of opinions can and does cause
harm to the people subjected to them, either directly (because
hearing someone who may have been a sporting hero condemning you
for something you can’t change can be harmful to your mental
health) or indirectly (because hearing a public figure say these
things contributes to other people feeling they have a right to
persecute these minorities).
>
> And on that basis, we shouldn’t feel obliged to just shut up
and let him play.
>
--- End Quote ---
On your first point, his contract WAS terminated. In addition,
it's not for the man (or woman) in the street to enforce a
contract between two private parties.
On the second point, you highlight the conundrum - people
claiming to be "tolerant" but being intolerant of Folau. For the
record, he's not tried to stop anyone from doing whatever they
want; he's merely stated that he feels it's a sin and that they
will be punished by God.
Should all priests be denounced and cancelled, hounded ot of
their jobs and their lives made hell, because they do something
similar in their work?
The bottom line is, if people are really tolerant, then let him
say what he likes. Nobody has to read it. Until he actually
incites violence against anyone, he's just airing his views.
#Post#: 109240--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: BaaBass v World XV
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: May 24, 2023, 3:11 am
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Thin line stinky, between freedom of expression and being beyond
the pale. I'm not sure where it lies but my gut feeling is that
you are defending that cigar in the swimming pool.
#Post#: 109248--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: BaaBass v World XV
DIR By: dr_miles
Date: May 24, 2023, 5:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> But you don't they should, in turn, leave him alone for
expressing his opinions? Interesting double standard there.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yet your identical double standard is that people should stop
expressing their opinions. Odd.
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