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#Post#: 108977--------------------------------------------------
Re: OT Under-20 Championship to use Smart Balls
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: May 18, 2023, 12:54 pm
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Yeah, as poorfour says, VAR is not a great example of how
technology can help sport.
#Post#: 108980--------------------------------------------------
Re: OT Under-20 Championship to use Smart Balls
DIR By: DOK
Date: May 18, 2023, 1:49 pm
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I guess if the ball knows where it is on the pitch, knows where
the posts are, knows how fast it is travelling towards the
posts, knows when/where it was thrown, knows the drop off speed
of a rugby ball thrown a known distance (presumably more or less
sideways) and where it was caught then you could identify a
forward pass. Seems a lot to know at any one time though.
#Post#: 108984--------------------------------------------------
Re: OT Under-20 Championship to use Smart Balls
DIR By: Quinky
Date: May 18, 2023, 3:36 pm
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--- Quote from: DOK link ---
>
> I guess if the ball knows where it is on the pitch, knows
where the posts are, knows how fast it is travelling towards the
posts, knows when/where it was thrown, knows the drop off speed
of a rugby ball thrown a known distance (presumably more or less
sideways) and where it was caught then you could identify a
forward pass. Seems a lot to know at any one time though.
>
--- End Quote ---
For a human, yes. For a computer, not at all.
#Post#: 108990--------------------------------------------------
Re: OT Under-20 Championship to use Smart Balls
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: May 19, 2023, 3:36 am
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Without wishing to go over old ground (he says, fully intending
to go over old ground), will the RugbyVAR not simply just have
to tell if the ball arrives at the recipient in front of the
despatcher?
#Post#: 108993--------------------------------------------------
Re: OT Under-20 Championship to use Smart Balls
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: May 19, 2023, 3:39 am
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--- Quote from: deadlyfrom5yardsout link ---
>
> Without wishing to go over old ground (he says, fully
intending to go over old ground), will the RugbyVAR not simply
just have to tell if the ball arrives at the recipient in front
of the despatcher?
>
--- End Quote ---
Obviously not, as you should know by now, because that isn't how
a forward pass is defined. 🙂
#Post#: 108995--------------------------------------------------
Re: OT Under-20 Championship to use Smart Balls
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: May 19, 2023, 3:45 am
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Which I still completely disagree with.....
#Post#: 108996--------------------------------------------------
Re: OT Under-20 Championship to use Smart Balls
DIR By: poorfour
Date: May 19, 2023, 3:53 am
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--- Quote from: DOK link ---
>
> I guess if the ball knows where it is on the pitch, knows
where the posts are, knows how fast it is travelling towards the
posts, knows when/where it was thrown, knows the drop off speed
of a rugby ball thrown a known distance (presumably more or less
sideways) and where it was caught then you could identify a
forward pass. Seems a lot to know at any one time though.
>
--- End Quote ---
For a forward pass, from the description in the press release,
all it needs to know is two things: how fast it was travelling
forward immediately before release, and how fast it was
travelling forward immediately after the release.
If the "after" figure is less than the "before" figure, it's not
a forward pass. If "after" is greater than "before" then it is.
There's no need to measure position because (as they are today)
what the refs are interested in is how the ball left the hands.
As we've done to death on here before, all passes made at speed
will move forward relative to the pitch, because the speed of a
running player and the speed they can impart to a pass are
sufficiently close that any pass can only reduce rather than
reverse the forward momentum the ball gets from the player -
unless they try to pass almost directly backwards with full
force, which I am not sure is anatomically feasible at pace.
#Post#: 109003--------------------------------------------------
Re: OT Under-20 Championship to use Smart Balls
DIR By: never sleep
Date: May 19, 2023, 5:49 am
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--- Quote from: deadlyfrom5yardsout link ---
>
> Without wishing to go over old ground (he says, fully
intending to go over old ground), will the RugbyVAR not simply
just have to tell if the ball arrives at the recipient in front
of the despatcher?
>
--- End Quote ---
One point that I have never really got my head around is this -
Why is a forward pass different from "offside in open play".
In other words.
Assume two players are stood still.
Player B is stood slightly in front of Player A.
Player A then passes the ball to Player B.
- this is clearly a forward pass.
But, why is it a forward pass (i.e. scrum) and not an offside
(i.e. penalty)?
#Post#: 109006--------------------------------------------------
Re: OT Under-20 Championship to use Smart Balls
DIR By: Quanks
Date: May 19, 2023, 6:15 am
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--- Quote from: never sleep link ---
>
> One point that I have never really got my head around is this
-
>
> Why is a forward pass different from "offside in open play".
>
> In other words.
> Assume two players are stood still.
> Player B is stood slightly in front of Player A.
> Player A then passes the ball to Player B.
> - this is clearly a forward pass.
> But, why is it a forward pass (i.e. scrum) and not an offside
(i.e. penalty)?
>
--- End Quote ---
Law 10.3. A player who receives an unintentional throw forward
is not offside.
There's some murky water around what is unintentional - it was
intentional to throw the ball to the player that was slightly in
front. However I think it's just assumed that a player is always
trying to make a legal pass where possible.
#Post#: 109007--------------------------------------------------
Re: OT Under-20 Championship to use Smart Balls
DIR By: never sleep
Date: May 19, 2023, 6:27 am
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So, lets go one step further.
Three players - all static
Player B is in front of Player A
Player C is in front of player B
Player A passes to ball to Player B = scrum
Player B unfortunately doesn't catch the ball and knocks on into
Player C, who catches the ball = offside Penalty???
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