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       #Post#: 108920--------------------------------------------------
       OT Under-20 Championship to use Smart Balls
   DIR By: Adrian
       Date: May 17, 2023, 6:08 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
  HTML https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2023/05/17/smart-balls-help-referees-identify-forward-passes-lineouts/
       #Post#: 108944--------------------------------------------------
       Re: OT Under-20 Championship to use Smart Balls
   DIR By: Quinky
       Date: May 17, 2023, 5:11 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I remember suggesting something like this on here a few seasons
       back. It was generally dismissed as not being possible.
       #Post#: 108945--------------------------------------------------
       Re: OT Under-20 Championship to use Smart Balls
   DIR By: raedarius
       Date: May 17, 2023, 5:43 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       When forward passes were identified by direction of hands, a
       smart ball would not be the answer.
       #Post#: 108948--------------------------------------------------
       Re: OT Under-20 Championship to use Smart Balls
   DIR By: Banstead Quin
       Date: May 18, 2023, 3:48 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I know there are arguments about how being too technical will
       ruin the flow of the game but I'd have chips in the balls (odd
       shaped ones, not mine own) and in the heels of boots which would
       actually speed the game up ultimately and allow for annoying
       things to be eradicated.
       They could run it for a season in the Prem and give us the
       results at the end. Ref's could then learn how to adapt before
       switching it on for good.
       #Post#: 108951--------------------------------------------------
       Re: OT Under-20 Championship to use Smart Balls
   DIR By: JammyGit
       Date: May 18, 2023, 4:41 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Quinky link ---
       >
       > I remember suggesting something like this on here a few
       seasons back. It was generally dismissed as not being possible.
       >
       >
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Twas a good discussion. If I recall correctly, it's not so much
       that the technology simply can't do it, it's that it's a lot
       more complex than people think (i.e. not just GPS). The article
       is pretty thin on the tech, but talks about beacons placed
       around the pitch and updates potentially every 5 milliseconds.
       From that they should be able to calculate whether the ball has
       accelerated towards the try-line as a proxy for a forward pass,
       though it'd need to be something that is manually reviewed as it
       won't know whether the ball was kicked, dropped, chested down,
       charged down, etc.
       It could help - depends on how many beacons and what ends up
       being the real polling frequency - but it's not something that
       officials would be able to hand over control to. Will be
       interesting to see where this goes, and whether it's cheap
       enough to at least be feasible for top level rugby worldwide.
       #Post#: 108953--------------------------------------------------
       Re: OT Under-20 Championship to use Smart Balls
   DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
       Date: May 18, 2023, 4:48 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Well if VAR is anything to go by, it will start out as something
       for the Refereeing Team to utilise as required (ie occasionally)
       and end up as being demanded for every single decision by the
       party the decision has gone against.
       #Post#: 108955--------------------------------------------------
       Re: OT Under-20 Championship to use Smart Balls
   DIR By: poorfour
       Date: May 18, 2023, 4:55 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: raedarius link ---
       >
       > When forward passes were identified by direction of hands, a
       smart ball would not be the answer.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Why do you think that? Smart balls essentially do the same thing
       (if I have read the press release properly) - they look at
       whether the trajectory of the ball when it leaves the hand is
       backwards relative to the motion of the player. Ie. if the
       player is travelling forward at, say, 6m/s and the ball is
       travelling forward at 5m/s, it's a legal pass.
       Checking the direction of the hands is a proxy for doing that
       which is fairly reliable, but the hope must be that the smart
       ball makes it more objective and reliable. The acid test will be
       whether it can reliable judge a forward pass when the player is
       stopped in the tackle immediately after releasing the ball.
       #Post#: 108960--------------------------------------------------
       Re: OT Under-20 Championship to use Smart Balls
   DIR By: Rigoletto
       Date: May 18, 2023, 7:02 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Yet another piece of technology that will just create another
       thing to argue over when you get an inconclusive reading that
       needs human interpretation. Same as VAR. The only thing that VAR
       achieved is that it is now not only the referee who ends up
       being vilified. Referees decision should be final, like it or
       not.
       #Post#: 108965--------------------------------------------------
       Re: OT Under-20 Championship to use Smart Balls
   DIR By: Quinky
       Date: May 18, 2023, 8:00 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
       >
       > Twas a good discussion. If I recall correctly, it's not so
       much that the technology simply can't do it, it's that it's a
       lot more complex than people think (i.e. not just GPS). The
       article is pretty thin on the tech, but talks about beacons
       placed around the pitch and updates potentially every 5
       milliseconds. From that they should be able to calculate whether
       the ball has accelerated towards the try-line as a proxy for a
       forward pass, though it'd need to be something that is manually
       reviewed as it won't know whether the ball was kicked, dropped,
       chested down, charged down, etc.
       >
       > It could help - depends on how many beacons and what ends up
       being the real polling frequency - but it's not something that
       officials would be able to hand over control to. Will be
       interesting to see where this goes, and whether it's cheap
       enough to at least be feasible for top level rugby worldwide.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I'd hope that it would be used in conjunction with the 4th (or
       5th?) official; hence, if a forward movement is picked up, it
       can be ignored if it's come via foot. The issues that would take
       longer to review would be where's there's some question over
       whether it's come off a hand or another body part, or indeed
       when it's unclear who was the last player to touch it (e.g.
       contesting a ball in the air).
       #Post#: 108966--------------------------------------------------
       Re: OT Under-20 Championship to use Smart Balls
   DIR By: poorfour
       Date: May 18, 2023, 8:41 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Rigoletto link ---
       >
       > Yet another piece of technology that will just create another
       thing to argue over when you get an inconclusive reading that
       needs human interpretation. Same as VAR. The only thing that VAR
       achieved is that it is now not only the referee who ends up
       being vilified. Referees decision should be final, like it or
       not.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Why assume that it will be like VAR? Soccer is an outlier in
       that its implementation of video technology hasn't really helped
       anything. Rugby has a long history of using the TMO successfully
       - especially when there's a ref on the field who knows how to
       work effectively with the TMO, and the use of ball tracking
       technology in Tennis and Cricket has been very successfully
       applied.
       In most cases, this tech is going to enable the TMO to pass
       additional information on to the ref and ARs that will enable
       better calls in real time such as whether a ball was touched in
       flight or where it crossed the goal line. The forward pass
       capability is likely to take the most getting used to, but it
       should be unambiguous because it will give an objective measure
       of how the ball moved.
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