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#Post#: 108660--------------------------------------------------
Re: Are we losing a coach?
DIR By: Quinky
Date: May 10, 2023, 5:22 am
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It's also easy to extrapolate from stats to support your
position. Winning 3 from 12 in the league is poor, agreed. Prior
to that we were 6 from 8, which nobody would be unhappy about.
Apart from the same people who choose to highlight 3 from 12...
And what defines success? Winning the final? If so, then 10
teams fail every season. Getting to the playoffs? Then we've had
a few successful seasons recently. Merely performing better in
the competition? If so, we've effectively succeeded in Europe
this season.
Or is it merely that some people will always look for a reason
to criticise the club, regardless of whether it's justified?
#Post#: 108668--------------------------------------------------
Re: Are we losing a coach?
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: May 10, 2023, 6:58 am
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--- Quote from: Thegp link ---
>
> It bewilders me that people are so accepting of failure. Nice
guy I’m sure but we’re slowly getting worse each year.
>
--- End Quote ---
I don't see how we can be "slowly getting worse each year" when
last year we came 3rd and the year before we came 4th (but won
the playoffs+final).
Here's how it's been for the last 6 seasons:
--- Quote ---
> 17-18: 10th, 7 wins. 479 for, 640 against, 58 tries / 78
conceded, 36pts
> 18-19: 5th, 10 wins. 544/528, 63/56, 56 pts
> 19-20: 6th, 10 wins. 517/560, 63/63, 51pts
> 20-21: 4th, 13 wins. 703/564, 89/77, 71pts + champions
> 21-22: 3rd, 15 wins. 647/554, 95/68, 80pts. out in SF to
Saracens
> 22-23: 6th, 9 wins. 546/551, 78/75, 51pts.
--- End Quote ---
+ we also did better this season in Europe than we did last
season
It's been a mediocre season but it's not any sort of pattern.
There's been so much disruption - we've missed most of our
backrow for a big chunk of the season, plus Marcus & Marchant;
Lewies has barely featured, Lynagh's been out for most of it,
and Green picked up a season ender early on. I don't think it's
a huge surprise we've struggled to finish off chances and put
teams away.
If you look at the teams who did better than us... most of them
are pretty much unaffected by callups and haven't had injury
runs.
#Post#: 108677--------------------------------------------------
Re: Are we losing a coach?
DIR By: never sleep
Date: May 10, 2023, 8:45 am
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--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> I don't see how we can be "slowly getting worse each year"
when last year we came 3rd and the year before we came 4th (but
won the playoffs+final).
>
> Here's how it's been for the last 6 seasons:
>
> + we also did better this season in Europe than we did last
season
>
> It's been a mediocre season but it's not any sort of pattern.
There's been so much disruption - we've missed most of our
backrow for a big chunk of the season, plus Marcus & Marchant;
Lewies has barely featured, Lynagh's been out for most of it,
and Green picked up a season ender early on. I don't think it's
a huge surprise we've struggled to finish off chances and put
teams away.
>
> If you look at the teams who did better than us... most of
them are pretty much unaffected by callups and haven't had
injury runs.
>
>
>
--- End Quote ---
One point to note Jammy
On the total points per season, it should be noted that there
would be an expectation to earn more points in a 13 team league
than there would be in an 11 team league.
So, it should show the points as 51 points out of a possible 100
points or 80/110, etc.
This season, we scored fewer points as we were not able to play
against 2 of the mid/lower table teams.
10% of our games this season has been against Sarries.
Last season it was around 9%.
It was 0% the season before.
As they say, there are lies, damn lies . . . . .
#Post#: 108678--------------------------------------------------
Re: Are we losing a coach?
DIR By: poorfour
Date: May 10, 2023, 8:48 am
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--- Quote from: never sleep link ---
>
> As they say, there are lies, damn lies . . . . .
>
--- End Quote ---
...and submissions to the Salary Cap auditor. Allegedly.
#Post#: 108680--------------------------------------------------
Re: Are we losing a coach?
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: May 10, 2023, 9:33 am
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--- Quote from: never sleep link ---
>
> One point to note Jammy
> On the total points per season, it should be noted that there
would be an expectation to earn more points in a 13 team league
than there would be in an 11 team league.
> So, it should show the points as 51 points out of a possible
100 points or 80/110, etc.
>
> This season, we scored fewer points as we were not able to
play against 2 of the mid/lower table teams.
> 10% of our games this season has been against Sarries.
> Last season it was around 9%.
> It was 0% the season before.
>
> As they say, there are lies, damn lies . . . . .
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks, I hadn't thought of that.
#Post#: 108681--------------------------------------------------
Re: Are we losing a coach?
DIR By: KentQuin
Date: May 10, 2023, 11:06 am
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--- Quote from: never sleep link ---
>
> I honestly don't know what team you have been watching.
> During the JK era, I watched people leaving the Stoop in
droves and booing at the end of games.
> During the Gustard era we watched 80 minute bore-fests.
>
--- End Quote ---
Couldn't agree more. What made the second half of the 2020/21
season and the majority of the 2021/22 season so enjoyable was
the style of play. "Success" is so much broader than just
winning and it's relative based on the starting point.
Judging Tabs on this critera, third in his first season was a
decent effort having finished fourth the year before and there
are mitigating factors for us falling short this year. And we
continue to play attractive rugby. He certainly deserves another
season at the helm and I'm more optimistic then pessimistic of
our chances of bouncing back into the playoffs.
If we're just looking at results, then it's only really Sarries
and Exeter who have been consistently better than us, and of
course one of those benefited from financial doping. The reality
is we're in the following pack with Tigers, Sale and Saints.
To me, success in the medium team would be us consistently
making top 4 and European quarters.
#Post#: 108687--------------------------------------------------
Re: Are we losing a coach?
DIR By: poorfour
Date: May 10, 2023, 1:11 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Thegp link ---
>
> It bewilders me that people are so accepting of failure. Nice
guy I’m sure but we’re slowly getting worse each year.
>
--- End Quote ---
Accepting of failure, or realistic about competition? There are
10 other teams out there, all trying to win the same things
Quins are.
The difference between success and failure in a single match can
be as small as a ref failing to call a tackle off the ball or
check an obvious forward pass, or a miscommunication at the
lineout, or a poor pass with the try line open.
And the difference between 6th and 3rd or 4th is one or two
games.
Expecting a squad to make the playoffs every year is failing to
acknowledge that there are other teams out there (mostly)
working within the same salary cap and trying equally hard to do
the same.
A season when we have, for extended periods of time, not been
able to call on one of our coaches and regular members of our
XXIII at 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 13, 14 and 15 is not one where we
can expect to be all conquering.
#Post#: 108689--------------------------------------------------
Re: Are we losing a coach?
DIR By: Thegp
Date: May 10, 2023, 2:05 pm
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Every team has injuries and players unavailable. It’s amazing
how many excuses you can make!
We’re going backwards. We won the league. Then we made the
semis. This year we’ve been in bottom 4 form second half of the
season. Gustard and Kingston would have been crucified for this.
We’ll see next season but if you expect some of us fans who are
paying well over the odds now to shrug our shoulders at
mediocrity then no.
#Post#: 108691--------------------------------------------------
Re: Are we losing a coach?
DIR By: Fursty
Date: May 10, 2023, 2:53 pm
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We also lost 2 games directly as a result of awful refereeing
decisions in the 80th minute, another 6 points would have put a
very different complexion on the season.
#Post#: 108692--------------------------------------------------
Re: Are we losing a coach?
DIR By: poorfour
Date: May 10, 2023, 3:26 pm
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--- Quote from: Thegp link ---
>
> We’ll see next season but if you expect some of us fans who
are paying well over the odds now to shrug our shoulders at
mediocrity then no.
>
--- End Quote ---
Well, I certainly expect you to moan about it, but if you feel
like voting with your feet I doubt many folks here or at the
club itself would shed a tear.
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