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#Post#: 106253--------------------------------------------------
Re: Central Contracts
DIR By: Yareet
Date: March 24, 2023, 2:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thinking about the idea of concentrating England’s playing
resources, I’m wondering if it would work or bring back the old
divisional teams. In a way mirroring NZ’s model more.
If there is a rejig to the global calendar, could European games
be after the Prem has finished (for argument’s sake, the end of
March).
Then have a London, SW, Midlands and North teams of players who
play or are from those regions. This could also be true of the
coaches. It could also be just North and South.
That would:
a) Give English clubs more concentration of players
b) Keep the Prem meaningful
c) Give players experience of being in a Test-like camp
d) Give more coaches in the English game a stepping stone into
representative rugby helping to provide a pool of coaches for
England.
Probably lots of gaps I’m not thinking of and there is no reason
for the rest of the European clubs to accept it.
#Post#: 106256--------------------------------------------------
Re: Central Contracts
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: March 24, 2023, 3:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Mark Evans idea of a European Super League would certainly come
closer with 2 super teams in England. Not much fun for any other
club in the Prem though. It just struck me that anything coming
out of MCCalls mouth is not going to be for the greater good.
#Post#: 106258--------------------------------------------------
Re: Central Contracts
DIR By: Fearless Fred
Date: March 24, 2023, 4:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> Thinking about the idea of concentrating England’s playing
resources, I’m wondering if it would work or bring back the old
divisional teams. In a way mirroring NZ’s model more.
>
> If there is a rejig to the global calendar, could European
games be after the Prem has finished (for argument’s sake, the
end of March).
>
> Then have a London, SW, Midlands and North teams of players
who play or are from those regions. This could also be true of
the coaches. It could also be just North and South.
>
> That would:
>
> a) Give English clubs more concentration of players
> b) Keep the Prem meaningful
> c) Give players experience of being in a Test-like camp
> d) Give more coaches in the English game a stepping stone into
representative rugby helping to provide a pool of coaches for
England.
>
> Probably lots of gaps I’m not thinking of and there is no
reason for the rest of the European clubs to accept it.
>
--- End Quote ---
I see some merit in this as an idea. Let the clubs continue as
is (in a league of 10 with P&L to the Championship). Premiership
will still be a tight fight. Ownership continues in the current
format. The season will be shorter (no Prem Cup, but maybe a
proper A league for midweek games), with Semis & Finals at the
end of a 20 week season (18 weeks home & away regular season,
Semi & Final).
Then the regions (under the ownership & paid for by the the
union with coaches selected under the guidance of the union
Director of Development) form to compete in the Champions Cup.
The games can be spread around the stadia of the "region" for
that (e.g. The Stoop, Brentford Stadium, StoneX for the
"London/SE Lancers" etc.). A funding split from revenue for
these games to be agreed & shared with both Premiership and
Championship clubs and the RFU (probably something like 35% each
to RFU & Premiership, 30% for Championship). That way the clubs
still benefit, with a boost to the Championship to make it more
competitive & allow clubs to invest, while also making money for
the Union.
Of course that would need the other competitions like the Top14
and URC agree to a shift in the calendar to put the Champions
Cup into a proper block, but as a part of the re-organisation to
a proper global calendar, now is the time to do it. If the
Premiership started at the start of September, with a 3 week
break for the AIs, you'd finish the Premiership the third week
of Feb the following year. Run the 6 Nations from March into the
mid April. Then on to the Champions Cup as an intense 7 weeks
May & June. Summer tours in July.
Of course it would mean that no English club would ever win the
Champions Cup again, just one of the Regions, but I'm willing to
accept that as a price for an improved season & England team.
#Post#: 106259--------------------------------------------------
Re: Central Contracts
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: March 24, 2023, 4:42 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: A222Quin link ---
>
> And the French success has taken years and years and a big old
TV deal and many very wealthy owners to get to this point where
both are in a position to thrive. It wasn't so long ago that
France were underperforming as badly as England.
>
--- End Quote ---
Not really. All it took was for them to bring in a coach who
picked youth and talent. This time 2 years ago they were in the
doldrums. We thrashed them at Twickenham. a year later they were
the best team int he world.
#Post#: 106260--------------------------------------------------
Re: Central Contracts
DIR By: never sleep
Date: March 24, 2023, 5:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Kermitpower link ---
>
> Who on earth is going to pay to watch one of the pointless
nine who'll never make it to the top of the tree?
>
> Don't get me wrong, I love watching my club as well, despite
them being several levels lower down the tree, but they've got a
level playing field with the other teams in their league, so
fair competition.
>
--- End Quote ---
For many years, Saracens were allegedly breaching the salary
cap. During this time they were routinely wiping the floor with
most other teams on their way to Prem and Euro cup success.
During these years, we, along with supporters of all the other
clubs in the league, were still paying money to go and watch our
teams play in some one sided games. (Remember - we were beaten
39 - nil at home in 2014)
#Post#: 106263--------------------------------------------------
Re: Central Contracts
DIR By: QuincyJones
Date: March 24, 2023, 5:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: never sleep link ---
>
> For many years, Saracens were allegedly breaching the salary
cap. During this time they were routinely wiping the floor with
most other teams on their way to Prem and Euro cup success.
> During these years, we, along with supporters of all the other
clubs in the league, were still paying money to go and watch our
teams play in some one sided games. (Remember - we were beaten
39 - nil at home in 2014)
>
--- End Quote ---
Key word there being 'allegedly'. Now of course, we know it's
true. But back then, although we all had strong suspicions, for
all intents and purposes all teams in the league were "equal".
If you know for a fact you're playing a team in the same league
as you that have infinite playing resources compared to your
limited ceiling, there's not much joy to be taken from that.
#Post#: 106265--------------------------------------------------
Re: Central Contracts
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: March 24, 2023, 5:26 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Kermitpower link ---
>
> Who on earth is going to pay to watch one of the pointless
nine who'll never make it to the top of the tree?
>
> Don't get me wrong, I love watching my club as well, despite
them being several levels lower down the tree, but they've got a
level playing field with the other teams in their league, so
fair competition.
>
--- End Quote ---
Frankly I wouldn't be buying a season ticket, or any other
ticket, regardless of whether Quins were one of the two or the
ten.
#Post#: 106266--------------------------------------------------
Re: Central Contracts
DIR By: never sleep
Date: March 24, 2023, 5:39 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: QuincyJones link ---
>
> Key word there being 'allegedly'. Now of course, we know it's
true. But back then, although we all had strong suspicions, for
all intents and purposes all teams in the league were "equal".
>
> If you know for a fact you're playing a team in the same
league as you that have infinite playing resources compared to
your limited ceiling, there's not much joy to be taken from
that.
>
--- End Quote ---
I was never naïve enough to just have a "strong suspicion".
In my own mind, I was 100% certain that they were cheating -
but, I went to the games anyway.
I do have a strong suspicion that a lot of Quins team (and
probably other teams) were also 100% certain that they were
breaching the cap.
#Post#: 106268--------------------------------------------------
Re: Central Contracts
DIR By: Yareet
Date: March 24, 2023, 6:04 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Fearless Fred link ---
>
> I see some merit in this as an idea. Let the clubs continue as
is (in a league of 10 with P&L to the Championship). Premiership
will still be a tight fight. Ownership continues in the current
format. The season will be shorter (no Prem Cup, but maybe a
proper A league for midweek games), with Semis & Finals at the
end of a 20 week season (18 weeks home & away regular season,
Semi & Final).
>
> Then the regions (under the ownership & paid for by the the
union with coaches selected under the guidance of the union
Director of Development) form to compete in the Champions Cup.
The games can be spread around the stadia of the "region" for
that (e.g. The Stoop, Brentford Stadium, StoneX for the
"London/SE Lancers" etc.). A funding split from revenue for
these games to be agreed & shared with both Premiership and
Championship clubs and the RFU (probably something like 35% each
to RFU & Premiership, 30% for Championship). That way the clubs
still benefit, with a boost to the Championship to make it more
competitive & allow clubs to invest, while also making money for
the Union.
>
> Of course that would need the other competitions like the
Top14 and URC agree to a shift in the calendar to put the
Champions Cup into a proper block, but as a part of the
re-organisation to a proper global calendar, now is the time to
do it. If the Premiership started at the start of September,
with a 3 week break for the AIs, you'd finish the Premiership
the third week of Feb the following year. Run the 6 Nations from
March into the mid April. Then on to the Champions Cup as an
intense 7 weeks May & June. Summer tours in July.
>
> Of course it would mean that no English club would ever win
the Champions Cup again, just one of the Regions, but I'm
willing to accept that as a price for an improved season &
England team.
>
--- End Quote ---
Have we just fixed English rugby, Fred? 🤔
#Post#: 106269--------------------------------------------------
Re: Central Contracts
DIR By: Fearless Fred
Date: March 24, 2023, 6:12 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> Have we just fixed English rugby, Fred? 🤔
>
--- End Quote ---
Possibly! I would even consider running the A-league for the
non-regional-assigned players as mid-week games during the
Champions Cup window to allow the clubs to keep players fit &
revenue going for a longer period of the year rather than
concentrating it to the first half of the calendar.
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