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#Post#: 106168--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stephen Jones ..he’s off again
DIR By: never sleep
Date: March 22, 2023, 5:08 am
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When it comes down to it though - I reckon that SB makes
decisions based on more info that what SJ writes in the
newspaper and what fans say on social media.
He will have realms of stats at his fingertips.
E.g. one thing that you often read on social media after the
France game was about Dommers being unfit.
SB will have the info from GPS trackers and from beep tests,
etc. I think that I would trust this info rather that a 12 year
old Billy V. fanboy on social media.
Also, the whole thing with "players not being good enough" is
hogwash.
All of those players are there on merit.
SB will be formulating a game-plan and will be selecting the
best players to execute that gameplan. This doesn't always
equate to the best players available in each position.
I am not a fan of Faz - but, I think that Faz copping flak for
the England performance is daft.
Everyone (especially SB) knows what he can (or can't) do and how
he plays.
SB (presumably) formulated a game plan which he believed would
win the games. It generally didn't. But, I don't think that this
is due to any player on the field. They were likely doing what
they were supposed to be doing. The game plan just didn't work.
In my opinion, this is down to either:
1. poor game-plan by SB
2. poor preparation of the team by SB (e.g. players not having
enough training time to be able to execute the plans)
3. poor team selection by SB (i.e. not picking the best player
to execute the game plan)
4. England not having a pool of talent that are good enough to
win. (e.g. if all the French players are 20% fitter and 20%
stronger, then you are really up against it)
Most of this comes back to SB. Not Faz or Smith.
#Post#: 106172--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stephen Jones ..he’s off again
DIR By: Yareet
Date: March 22, 2023, 5:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> I have seen people who are saying that Smith is a good club
player who doesn't seem able to step up to international level,
or that he's had a lot of chances and not sparked the attack,
and even that he's another Alex Goode - great at club level but
not got what it takes at the higher level.
>
> Meanwhile, Farrell, who hasn't exactly presided over a
glorious winning run in the past few years, gets a pass for his
experience, kicking and tackling (despite, I think, a worse
completion rate at international level than Smith), and Ford
lives on in glorious memory.
>
> Dombrandt's coming in for similar flak, basically for not
producing his club carrying form. I haven't seen reliable stats,
but eyeballing the games Dommers seems to have had a higher
level of involvement than the other back rows (across tackling,
hitting rucks and carrying) and has made more yards in traffic
than the others. But hey, he's a fancy Dan who can't replicate
his showy form on the big stage.
>
--- End Quote ---
And this is where we disagree as eyeballing the games, I felt he
let himself down - missing tackles, dropping balls, etc.. I know
he will have done but I don't remember seeing Dombrandt hit a
single ruck.
#Post#: 106175--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stephen Jones ..he’s off again
DIR By: #495
Date: March 22, 2023, 5:20 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I could have stopped reading at any point, but reached the limit
when he calls out Marcus for kicking "with mediocrity". That is
sometimes true, but is quite often true for OF too.
#Post#: 106177--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stephen Jones ..he’s off again
DIR By: Quinky
Date: March 22, 2023, 5:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: baggie link ---
>
> Years ago somebody told me that Jones was renowned for leaving
games early to avoid the traffic and relying on a junior
reporter to finish off the piece and get it filed
>
--- End Quote ---
Then there was the time I was in a bar with Bolly and Jones was
there, whilst a game was on... Let's just say that he certainly
didn't seem to be paying attention to what was on the screen.
#Post#: 106178--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stephen Jones ..he’s off again
DIR By: baggie
Date: March 22, 2023, 5:41 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: never sleep link ---
>
> When it comes down to it though - I reckon that SB makes
decisions based on more info that what SJ writes in the
newspaper and what fans say on social media.
> He will have realms of stats at his fingertips.
> E.g. one thing that you often read on social media after the
France game was about Dommers being unfit.
> SB will have the info from GPS trackers and from beep tests,
etc. I think that I would trust this info rather that a 12 year
old Billy V. fanboy on social media.
>
> Also, the whole thing with "players not being good enough" is
hogwash.
> All of those players are there on merit.
> SB will be formulating a game-plan and will be selecting the
best players to execute that gameplan. This doesn't always
equate to the best players available in each position.
>
> I am not a fan of Faz - but, I think that Faz copping flak for
the England performance is daft.
> Everyone (especially SB) knows what he can (or can't) do and
how he plays.
> SB (presumably) formulated a game plan which he believed would
win the games. It generally didn't. But, I don't think that this
is due to any player on the field. They were likely doing what
they were supposed to be doing. The game plan just didn't work.
>
> In my opinion, this is down to either:
> 1. poor game-plan by SB
> 2. poor preparation of the team by SB (e.g. players not having
enough training time to be able to execute the plans)
> 3. poor team selection by SB (i.e. not picking the best player
to execute the game plan)
> 4. England not having a pool of talent that are good enough to
win. (e.g. if all the French players are 20% fitter and 20%
stronger, then you are really up against it)
>
> Most of this comes back to SB. Not Faz or Smith.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
SB’s mistake was believing that you could create a hybrid team
based around the physicality and forward dominance of Leicester
/ Saracens and mix it with the flair of Harlequins / Saints /
Bristol simply by bringing in Nick Evans as attack coach
The Quins style of “speed over shape” based on Lightning Quick
Ball (LBQ) only works if you have got the right players in place
in the key positions in midfield, i.e. 8,9,10 & 12, to exploit
quick ball
If Scott “Razor” Robertson had got the job he might have had the
“balls” to exclude Farrell completely and go with Dombrandt (8),
Care (9), Smith (10) & Marchant (12) but Borthwick was never
going to be that radical
During the 6 Nations several players have played themselves OUT
of contention for the World Cup squad … Youngs (hopefully), van
Poortvliet (too slow for international level), Hassell-Collins
(not up to it), Slade (50+ caps but how many good games has he
had when he influences the result ?), Tuilagi (can he stay fit
for 7 weeks ?), Itoje ( the “Myth of Maro” has finally been
exploded as the negatives in terms of penalties conceded, only a
lightweight as a ball-carrier, outweigh the positives as
line-out caller)
The next few weeks of the domestic & European season provide an
excellent opportunity for players to play themselves into the
squad … I hope the Quins boys come back with that mindset
#Post#: 106179--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stephen Jones ..he’s off again
DIR By: KiltedQuin
Date: March 22, 2023, 5:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I presume that if Barrett, Ntamak or Russell were English
clueless Jones would still discount their talents to unlock
defences in preference to Farrell's boot and hopefully chase
approach.
#Post#: 106180--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stephen Jones ..he’s off again
DIR By: never sleep
Date: March 22, 2023, 6:06 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: KiltedQuin link ---
>
> I presume that if Barrett, Ntamak or Russell were English
clueless Jones would still discount their talents to unlock
defences in preference to Farrell's boot and hopefully chase
approach.
>
--- End Quote ---
I actually think that if your gameplan is boot and chase, then
Faz may be a better bet than Barrett, Ntamak or Russell.
#Post#: 106181--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stephen Jones ..he’s off again
DIR By: baggie
Date: March 22, 2023, 6:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Ntamack only comes into his own in the opposition 22 as Dupont
is the principal play-maker in the middle of the field
I seem to recall that BT Sport showed a graphic earlier this
season before a Quins game which put Danny Care at the top of
the list (almost) for try assists in world rugby in recent
seasons … only Finn Russell was ahead of him
#Post#: 106184--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stephen Jones ..he’s off again
DIR By: never sleep
Date: March 22, 2023, 6:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: baggie link ---
>
>
> During the 6 Nations several players have played themselves
OUT of contention for the World Cup squad … Youngs (hopefully),
van Poortvliet (too slow for international level),
Hassell-Collins (not up to it), Slade (50+ caps but how many
good games has he had when he influences the result ?), Tuilagi
(can he stay fit for 7 weeks ?), Itoje ( the “Myth of Maro” has
finally been exploded as the negatives in terms of penalties
conceded, only a lightweight as a ball-carrier, outweigh the
positives as line-out caller)
>
>
--- End Quote ---
This is where I disagree pn indidual players.
For example: van Poortvliet (too slow for international level)
Yes - he was slow. But, you have to ask :
- Is this just the way he plays? If so, then we have to
question SB for picking him in this role.
- And - was this the game plan that he was instructed to play?
- if so, then he has shown that he is an excellent player who
can execute a gameplan.
And Maro.
It is often mentioned that Maro is not 100% fit.
That is not Maro's fault. He can only do what he normally does.
If he was playing at 90% fitness, then SB would have known this
- but picked him anyway.
#Post#: 106188--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stephen Jones ..he’s off again
DIR By: Quinky
Date: March 22, 2023, 7:31 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: baggie link ---
>
> SB’s mistake was believing that you could create a hybrid team
based around the physicality and forward dominance of Leicester
/ Saracens and mix it with the flair of Harlequins / Saints /
Bristol simply by bringing in Nick Evans as attack coach
>
> The Quins style of “speed over shape” based on Lightning Quick
Ball (LBQ) only works if you have got the right players in place
in the key positions in midfield, i.e. 8,9,10 & 12, to exploit
quick ball
>
> If Scott “Razor” Robertson had got the job he might have had
the “balls” to exclude Farrell completely and go with Dombrandt
(8), Care (9), Smith (10) & Marchant (12) but Borthwick was
never going to be that radical
>
> During the 6 Nations several players have played themselves
OUT of contention for the World Cup squad … Youngs (hopefully),
van Poortvliet (too slow for international level),
Hassell-Collins (not up to it), Slade (50+ caps but how many
good games has he had when he influences the result ?), Tuilagi
(can he stay fit for 7 weeks ?), Itoje ( the “Myth of Maro” has
finally been exploded as the negatives in terms of penalties
conceded, only a lightweight as a ball-carrier, outweigh the
positives as line-out caller)
>
> The next few weeks of the domestic & European season provide
an excellent opportunity for players to play themselves into the
squad … I hope the Quins boys come back with that mindset
>
--- End Quote ---
Agreed with most of this.
Re Dombrandt as 8, for me the issue is the balance of the back
row, and the strength of the pack as a whole. Alex usually plays
in a very balanced back row at Quins, and we have a strong and
mobile pack. Neither seems to be the case with England right
now.
Care is great for us, but I don't think he'd do a job at
international level any more. But JVP did seem painfully
ponderous.
Maro - often flattered to deceive IMO. It's often said that he
plays on the edge and hence will give away penalties. I'd
venture that he plays over the edge and gives away too many. He
is a marvellous athlete, and is a fine player; but I don't see
him as the world class player that many seem to suggest.
Tuilagi - one trick pony, who rarely manages a run of games.
Predictable in what he does, and hence limits those outside of
him by sticking to that one trick - bosh, bosh, bosh. Compare to
Nonu, who could bosh equally well, but could also run great
lines, pass, kick...
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