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#Post#: 106043--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rugby is dead - red card
DIR By: Quinky
Date: March 19, 2023, 1:21 pm
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--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> If Steward had time to dip, Peyper had time to blow his
whistle.
>
> He’d already called “Advantage England” so once it was clear
that Keenan was winning the race to the ball, he should’ve been
ready to whistle.
>
--- End Quote ---
Getting there first means nothing. He could have slipped or
fumbled.
#Post#: 106045--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rugby is dead - red card
DIR By: Mayor West
Date: March 19, 2023, 2:18 pm
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Did anybody watch the Prem final this afternoon? No red cards
for shoulder to head tackles there. One resulting in a KO for
EXeter 20 which nobody seemed to notice.
Stewards not as farcical as Matt Luamanu getting run into
by a 9 I think it was. Got a red for being on the pitch and that
was a few seasons ago before the new directive.
#Post#: 106050--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rugby is dead - red card
DIR By: poorfour
Date: March 19, 2023, 4:01 pm
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Rugby Special tonight said that there were 0.6 seconds between
the forward pass and the collision. Checking online, mean
reaction time to a visual stimulus is around 0.2 seconds. A
professional player might be a bit quicker than that, but by
hundredths rather than tenths.
I wonder if slow motion replays should be changed so that they
include a time code showing how much time has passed at real
time speed? It would perhaps help to establish whether there is
actually time to respond - especially if WR did some research
into how quickly people can react.
#Post#: 106055--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rugby is dead - red card
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: March 19, 2023, 6:16 pm
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That would make sense if Steward was trying to contest
possession or make a tackle and had to react at the last second
to something unexpected happening. But that's not the case. He
ran up towards a player who was gathering a loose pass and at
the last second bailed on it, braced for contact, and hit him
straight in the head. There was nothing unexpected for him to
react to - the expected action (Keenan gathering the ball) is
what happened. If the argument is that he simply didn't have
time to do anything other than hitting Keenan in the head while
bracing for contact, what exactly was he going to do if the
whistle didn't go / the pass wasn't forward? It'd be the same
amount of time!
#Post#: 106058--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rugby is dead - red card
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: March 20, 2023, 3:02 am
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I like Steward but get the impression that for a big guy he is
not that keen on front on tackling. He is great in the air
though. Perhaps he could benefit from learning some martial arts
like Judo where you use your opponents strength against him and
he could perhaps have roll tackled Keenan rather than providing
an erect barrier.
#Post#: 106060--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rugby is dead - red card
DIR By: poorfour
Date: March 20, 2023, 3:54 am
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I take the view that what he had to react to was a player coming
on to him at a much lower height than he was prepared for -
Keenan was at a body angle that under the proposed waist height
tackle laws for the amateur game would have resulted in a
penalty against him rather than Steward.
The framework places a duty of care on the tackler to allow for
height changes in the ball carrier, but that’s intended to cover
a player falling or dropping a few inches, not one who is barely
above waist height.
There’s no way Steward could have got low enough to make that
tackle legally, and there’s no way, at the pace and angle he was
coming into the line, he could have got out of the way.
Once again, a red card is merited if you apply the framework
assuming Steward was trying to make a tackle, which he visibly
wasn’t. The framework needs updating to consider situations
where a player is trying to pull out of a tackle, but until then
the ref has the authority to apply some contextual factors where
the framework isn’t designed to operate.
And Peyper’s stance here would be more justifiable if he’d
applied similar rigour elsewhere in the game.
#Post#: 106061--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rugby is dead - red card
DIR By: Quinky
Date: March 20, 2023, 4:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> Once again, a red card is merited if you apply the framework
assuming Steward was trying to make a tackle, which he visibly
wasn’t.
>
--- End Quote ---
I agree that he wasn't trying to make a tackle. But what exactly
was he trying to do?
#Post#: 106062--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rugby is dead - red card
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: March 20, 2023, 4:14 am
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Right. Steward had already decided to not contest the ball or
make a tackle. Which left him with... what? His only safe
options at that point are get out of the way entirely or just
soak/hug tackle. It's a compound error - he made a bad call to
begin with then exacerbated it with his brace for contact at the
end. That's all on him. This isn't some incredible edge case -
players do what Keenan did all the time, and it's entirely
reasonable to expect that the guy going for the ball is going to
collect the ball.
As such, it is not at all hard to argue that it fits under
reckless foul play, which bypasses the mitigation part of the
framework entirely.
I'd have more sympathy for the "trying to pull out of a tackle"
argument if a) there was any evidence he was trying to make a
tackle in the first place, and b) he had chosen to do anything
except the extreme of protecting himself in the most dangerous
way for his opponent.
Sometimes a player just does something really badly and cops a
red for it. That seems fair to me - he was so bad at whatever it
was he was attempting to do that he badly injured an opponent.
That's a red in a lot of sports.
#Post#: 106063--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rugby is dead - red card
DIR By: never sleep
Date: March 20, 2023, 4:25 am
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--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> b) he had chosen to do anything except the extreme of
protecting himself in the most dangerous way for his opponent.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
I think that there is also the fact that if was Steward's elbow.
Had Steward gotten his arm out of the way and Keenan had gone
into Steward's midriff, then the injury to Keenan may have been
less. (Steward would have been a bit sore though.)
#Post#: 106066--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rugby is dead - red card
DIR By: never sleep
Date: March 20, 2023, 4:50 am
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"Six Nations confirms that Freddie Steward will face an
independent disciplinary hearing on Tuesday evening following
his red card against Ireland."
I wonder if the committee with throw JP under the bus.
I actually hope they agree with the red card. Otherwise, we will
never hear the end of this incident.
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