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#Post#: 106028--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rugby is dead - red card
DIR By: DOK
Date: March 19, 2023, 10:11 am
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I don't like the way it goes sort of "was the head involved? So
start with 'it's a red card unless we can get it down to yellow'
". It's kind of saying "guilty until proved innocent". As I say
I believe under current rules/laws it was a red, but I think the
rules/laws need revisiting now we've had them for a while to
fine tune/review them.
#Post#: 106029--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rugby is dead - red card
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: March 19, 2023, 10:16 am
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--- Quote from: DOK link ---
>
> OK - now there's something to argue about. Watch the very
first, early, pulled back shot where they track the England
player. To me he runs in from a long way out at at any time
could vary the direction he's running. He can see what's
happening in front of him, he has plenty of time to go for a
hit/tackle. Instead he uses that time to keep standing up and to
turn his shoulder while still moving forward. He actually jumps
into contact.
>
> Sorry, but I don't see the mitigation. I see he was unlucky
the Irish player makes head contact, maybe there's something to
be had from that but I don't see the "He couldn't do anything
different" argument. He chose not to do anything different and
paid the price.
>
--- End Quote ---
100% agree with this.
- He's moving forward
- He's always upright
- He nevers goes for the ball or the tackle
- He just jumps and turns and braces
He made an absolute mess of that. My theory is he switched his
brain off thanks to the drop / the whistle. Either way, what on
earth was he going to do if Keenan had gathered? Your instinct
going into contact can't be to mess yourself like that!
#Post#: 106031--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rugby is dead - red card
DIR By: Quins_on_Toast
Date: March 19, 2023, 10:32 am
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FS knew the play was dead. A blatant knock on. Why should he
expect Keenan to continue as he did? And why should he be
prepared to make a tackle?
#Post#: 106032--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rugby is dead - red card
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: March 19, 2023, 10:34 am
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Becasue that's what rugby players do - including Steward, who
didn't stop playing when the knock on occurred either. He's not
standing still.
#Post#: 106033--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rugby is dead - red card
DIR By: Kermitpower
Date: March 19, 2023, 10:45 am
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The first thing I'd say is that I think the reffing needs to be
far, far more consistent across all matches, as if the laws
aren't consistently applied, then they lose credibility.
With regards to the Steward incident, my first reaction, when he
tried to argue with Peyper that he was trying to avoid the
collision was "WTF do you mean, you were trying to avoid the
collision? It's your bloody job to collide with your opponent
when he's carrying the ball!"
In my mind, if Steward had time to turn his body sideways on
then he had time to drop and tackle, so why didn't he? If
Keenan was in the air and Steward realised he'd mistimed his
challenge then I'd have a lot of sympathy for him saying he was
trying to avoid the collision I'd have a lot of sympathy for
him, but that wasn't the case here.
Steward's tackle completion rate for the tournament as a whole
is 61.9%, which was the worst out of all the England backs to
have made more than 10 tackles, which is pretty woeful,
especially for a guy who is 6'5" tall and weighs in at 16.5
stone! Maybe he was "trying to avoid contact" because his
confidence in his tackling ability has taken a big knock?
#Post#: 106035--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rugby is dead - red card
DIR By: Man From LA
Date: March 19, 2023, 11:49 am
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England have got away with a few tackles over the years that
should have been a red (mostly from Farrell) so even if it
wasn't a red (I think it was under the current laws personally)
it's a case of swings and roundabouts. If England's opponents in
a RWC final were to suffer the same fate, I don't think any
England fan would complain (or care).
#Post#: 106036--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rugby is dead - red card
DIR By: Kermitpower
Date: March 19, 2023, 12:16 pm
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--- Quote from: Quins_on_Toast link ---
>
> FS knew the play was dead. A blatant knock on. Why should he
expect Keenan to continue as he did? And why should he be
prepared to make a tackle?
>
--- End Quote ---
One of the very first things we coach our kids is to "play to
the whistle".
If Keenan had left the ball on the floor because he was
expecting the ref to blow up, Steward had picked it up and run
through for a try, Faz senior would've quite rightly torn him a
new one, and I suspect Borthwick will have been doing likewise
for trying to turn away.
#Post#: 106037--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rugby is dead - red card
DIR By: Yareet
Date: March 19, 2023, 12:42 pm
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--- Quote from: Kermitpower link ---
>
> One of the very first things we coach our kids is to "play to
the whistle".
>
> If Keenan had left the ball on the floor because he was
expecting the ref to blow up, Steward had picked it up and run
through for a try, Faz senior would've quite rightly torn him a
new one, and I suspect Borthwick will have been doing likewise
for trying to turn away.
>
--- End Quote ---
If Steward had time to dip, Peyper had time to blow his whistle.
He’d already called “Advantage England” so once it was clear
that Keenan was winning the race to the ball, he should’ve been
ready to whistle.
#Post#: 106038--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rugby is dead - red card
DIR By: Kermitpower
Date: March 19, 2023, 12:53 pm
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--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> If Steward had time to dip, Peyper had time to blow his
whistle.
>
> He’d already called “Advantage England” so once it was clear
that Keenan was winning the race to the ball, he should’ve been
ready to whistle.
>
--- End Quote ---
That then becomes a question of how long do you let an advantage
run? I got one wrong myself this morning, whistled it a second
too early and probably cost the non-offending team a try, but
that's life, and there's nothing riding on the outcome of a
kids' match.
It's still an academic point though. Peyper hadn't blown, so
both players were quite right to carry on.
#Post#: 106041--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rugby is dead - red card
DIR By: DOK
Date: March 19, 2023, 1:10 pm
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List of players who tweeted in support here.
HTML https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/players-roast-peyper-for-red-card/?fbclid=IwAR3xaG60UhbNVatvpFCbk4BvJCYkTigxZPijgcS3sKVgQ3UgNunHyGnw_XY<br
/>
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