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#Post#: 105878--------------------------------------------------
Re: Membership renewal
DIR By: East Sussex Chris
Date: March 17, 2023, 7:35 am
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--- Quote from: Domestos link ---
>
> We have kicked this around for a number of years. The majority
of Prem club lose money every year. That is not a sustainable
business mode.
>
> Exeter manage to break even every year. How? Why?
>
> One fairly obvious answer is to reduce costs i.e. reduce
players and coaches wages.
>
--- End Quote ---
And office staff inc managers
#Post#: 105880--------------------------------------------------
Re: Membership renewal
DIR By: Kermitpower
Date: March 17, 2023, 7:48 am
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--- Quote from: Domestos link ---
>
> We have kicked this around for a number of years. The majority
of Prem club lose money every year. That is not a sustainable
business mode.
>
> Exeter manage to break even every year. How? Why?
>
> One fairly obvious answer is to reduce costs i.e. reduce
players and coaches wages.
>
--- End Quote ---
Reduce players wages --> Be even less competitive, especially in
Europe --> Lose far more often --> reduced ticket sales -->
death spiral.
I believe Exeter own the hotel at Sandy Park and make most of
their profits from non-matchday corporate events.
#Post#: 105881--------------------------------------------------
Re: Membership renewal
DIR By: Kermitpower
Date: March 17, 2023, 7:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: East Sussex Chris link ---
>
> Ok so the extra cost will bring in to the club about £1m, a
lot of money yes but not enough to secure our future, why are
the club not looking at an artificial pitch, and having all the
facilities in and around Twickenham, instead of Guildford. An
artificial pitch can be used all year round and by other clubs
both Soccer and Rugby, I hope the club have looked for other
revenue sources and potential infrastructure changes, but I
reckon they said 'lets try and fleece the fans first, if that
fails then we can look at something else'.
>
> I also remember posting at the time that people were mad to
donate covid money to club, this is there way of thanking you.
>
> Just out of interest what is the line from our supporters
association? I hope we stop passing on money to the club.
>
--- End Quote ---
Where on earth in Twickenham are they going to be able to put in
several training pitches and all the other facilities they have
in Guildford, and how many tens of millions of pounds would it
cost???
Also, how much do they actually own at the Surrey Sports Park,
as opposed to hiring out from the Sports Park?
I cannot imagine how they could possibly save any money by
bringing all of that into Twickenham.
#Post#: 105882--------------------------------------------------
Re: Membership renewal
DIR By: Yareet
Date: March 17, 2023, 7:52 am
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--- Quote from: Kermitpower link ---
>
> I think there are two particularly important points to make
with regards to the bit I've bolded.
>
> 1. It's questionable whether either Wuss or Wasps are true
bell-weathers of the wider situation. I'm not trying to dismiss
the financial condition of the clubs, but from what I've seen,
Wasps seems to be a result of incompetence and taking a massive
gamble on relocating to a huge stadium with no local support (I
suspect if you could move that stadium to Twickenham, Quins
would sell it out on a regular basis), whereas much of what
we've seen about Wuss makes you wonder which side of the law the
actions of the owners will eventually be seen to fall on.
>
> 2. Is the salary cap going to destroy professional rugby? I
know it was introduced to try and ensure that clubs could stand
on their own two feet financially, and that a mega-wealthy sugar
daddy couldn't just buy success, but all these years later, the
clubs are still dependent on the wealth of their owners, and how
long is that likely to be forthcoming if the salary cap means
they're consistently losing some of their best players and are
left embarrassed in European competition? Nobody is going to
keep pouring cash into their nice, shiny toy if it's not nice
and shiny any more.
>
> At the very least, I think World Rugby needs to look at
coordinated global salary caps so that no country has an unfair
advantage over others, as is currently bestowed on the French
clubs, for example. In the long run it doesn't really even
benefit the French or Irish clubs, because what's the point of
winning an uncompetitive European Cup competition that nobody
wants to watch?
>
--- End Quote ---
So, at the level that Fijian clubs can afford.
#Post#: 105885--------------------------------------------------
Re: Membership renewal
DIR By: poorfour
Date: March 17, 2023, 8:12 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: East Sussex Chris link ---
>
> Ok so the extra cost will bring in to the club about £1m, a
lot of money yes but not enough to secure our future, why are
the club not looking at an artificial pitch, and having all the
facilities in and around Twickenham, instead of Guildford. An
artificial pitch can be used all year round and by other clubs
both Soccer and Rugby, I hope the club have looked for other
revenue sources and potential infrastructure changes, but I
reckon they said 'lets try and fleece the fans first, if that
fails then we can look at something else'.
>
> I also remember posting at the time that people were mad to
donate covid money to club, this is there way of thanking you.
>
> Just out of interest what is the line from our supporters
association? I hope we stop passing on money to the club.
>
--- End Quote ---
In the before times, Quins were consistently losing between
£300-800k per year (which was in line with several other Prem
clubs). It's probably a bit more than that now with payback of
the Government loans etc - but £1m (+BG, +BSKO) goes a long way
towards tipping them into the black.
#Post#: 105890--------------------------------------------------
Re: Membership renewal
DIR By: Domestos
Date: March 17, 2023, 8:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> snip - but £1m (+BG, +BSKO) goes a long way towards tipping
them into the black.
>
--- End Quote ---
A long way, possibly, but never quite enough.
I thought Quins were losing £2m to £3m every year. No?
#Post#: 105891--------------------------------------------------
Re: Membership renewal
DIR By: SiB
Date: March 17, 2023, 8:29 am
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Isn’t the key point of a season ticket being missed
The club secure guaranteed revenue, for the season ahead, either
through DD or single payment
The supporter therefore gets their seat at a better price than
those buying per game
Has there been any mention of seat prices increasing for
individual games, because if there has I haven’t seen it
#Post#: 105893--------------------------------------------------
Re: Membership renewal
DIR By: poorfour
Date: March 17, 2023, 8:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Domestos link ---
>
> A long way, possibly, but never quite enough.
>
> I thought Quins were losing £2m to £3m every year. No?
>
--- End Quote ---
They may be at the moment - but the last few years haven't been
normal.
#Post#: 105898--------------------------------------------------
Re: Membership renewal
DIR By: M3quin
Date: March 17, 2023, 9:10 am
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Looks like the club want a cull of season ticket holders. There
is always a Churn of STH each year. With a waiting list of 2500
the club have decided that hit the large increase now and as
long as they cover the increased Churn that will happen, then
they have made large gains. The testing point will come in two
ways. 1. How many on the waiting list now take up the option.
2. With a large Churn this year how will STH numbers hold up in
years 2&3. I don't have stat`s for new STH Churn after 1st
year, but know of people who bought a ST and after the first
season, realised the commitment required to get to all the games
and only did one year. Games still TBC a few months ahead and
therefore having to keep whole weekends free. Games KO 5:15pm
on Sundays, Fridays nights can be difficult if you work and
travel any distance to the game etc.
#Post#: 105899--------------------------------------------------
Re: Membership renewal
DIR By: Kermitpower
Date: March 17, 2023, 9:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> So, at the level that Fijian clubs can afford.
--- End Quote ---
It's probably not possible to stop Pacific Islanders from
heading overseas for more money, but is that necessarily
desirable? Fiji has a population of just under a million, Samoa
around 200k, and Tonga little over 100k, so there is always
going to be a limit to the size of rugby infrastructure they can
have.
The answer there may be simply for World Rugby to come together
and subsidise the likes of Fijian Drua to make sure they can pay
decent salaries, rather than limiting all other countries to the
low level, but then say that only native-born Fijians can play
for them?
More of an issue that could be addressed by a global cap would
be setting levels such that it's not particularly financially
beneficial for players to move from one Tier One nation to
another.
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