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#Post#: 105861--------------------------------------------------
Re: Membership renewal
DIR By: poorfour
Date: March 17, 2023, 3:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: grimsbyquin link ---
>
> with Newcastle getting rid of some of there best players and
in deep financial trouble,and a lot of talk of Irish going to
the wall .Would we get an refund for another 2 games down or
would the club throw in another pointless fixture on a Thursday
night .Is this the reason ST renewals have been brought forward
so if those clubs go to the wall they already have our money.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
So let's get this straight... you think that if a further 2
clubs go under financially, meaning that 1/3 of the league will
have failed, the club should give a discount and increase the
chances of it going under as well?
We have this debate every year, but it's more serious this year
than at any point since the debacle of the late 90s.
Rugby is currently sustained financially by the generosity of
owners who have literally spent decades pouring money into clubs
with no expectation of a short term return. We have seen up
close this year what happens when those owners run out of money,
patience or both, and it's increased the urgency for clubs to
become self-funding.
For those that are confident of attracting good crowds, that
means higher ticket prices. And for Quins, it also means making
the most of the Big Stoop games and trying to develop the
Women's game so that they get revenue from the Stoop on more
matchdays.
There aren't that many more ways for them to make money. The tv
deals and sponsorship are not magically going to get better
because the clubs are struggling. Matchday sales and merch are
driven by the crowds, and the club hasn't got any current
capacity to increase the crowds other than selling out
Twickenham or winning home knockout games.
Ticket prices are probably the biggest lever they've got right
now, and with cold commeciality they will have tried to work out
what the highest prices are that they can charge and still fill
the ground, because that's the reality of the situation.
That will make it unaffordable for some loyal fans, which is
hard. But it's less hard than having the club fail.
Comparisons with Chelsea are interesting but a bit irrelevant.
Chelsea have a bigger stadium (which is also old and offers less
compared to its peers), a much higher proportion of revenue from
tv and sponsorship, and a billionaire backer rather than a mere
millionaire. Also, it's soccer which for me would be bad value
even if you paid me to watch it.
#Post#: 105862--------------------------------------------------
Re: Membership renewal
DIR By: Whitton Quin
Date: March 17, 2023, 4:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
poorfour, that is looking at it from the clubs perspective.
From a season ticket holders perspective, it is another big
increase. It seems goodwill is being eroded (to what level is
debatable), and some people who have always felt part of the
club are going to be pushed out. We will see what feelings are
in a few months......
We know performance is in cycles and the club is playing off the
recent success and 'entertainers' tab (please can the club not
refer to the team as 'the entertainers' it deflects from the
quality and success we have had). They might well have to adjust
in future when we are not so highly thought of, and not selling
out games.
#Post#: 105863--------------------------------------------------
Re: Membership renewal
DIR By: poorfour
Date: March 17, 2023, 5:14 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Yes, I'm looking at it from the club's perspective. I'm trying
to explain why what they're doing makes commercial sense for
them, because there's a lot of comment on here that suggests
people don't understand it.
The club knows that it will lose long standing members. But it
also knows that it needs to bolster its finances, and presumably
has calculated that this will do it.
#Post#: 105864--------------------------------------------------
Re: Membership renewal
DIR By: Whitton Quin
Date: March 17, 2023, 5:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Can I suggest people willing to go on the next 'wall' is
decreasing. I hope they have factored in.
I do understand the clubs stance, and am in the lucky position
to renew again this season (27% increase for me and 2 kids).
Lets just hope the new people who buy tickets (season or
matchday) in the next couple of seasons stick around.
#Post#: 105868--------------------------------------------------
Re: Membership renewal
DIR By: Bucksquin
Date: March 17, 2023, 6:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
This may sound odd (I'm sure someone will correct me if it does)
but I am less concerned about a price hike, given the parlous
state of English rugby, than I am with the fact that we have two
fewer home matches, NOT compensated for by a silly Baa-Baas
exhibition match (which if we select an academy side will be a
slaughter, and if we select a first XV will pointlessly risk
injuries). Equally irritating is the fact I can't plan any
weekend in the season due to not knowing when matches will be
scheduled, or what the KO times will be. I know that knock-out
rounds in Europe can't be scheduled beforehand because it
depends on who gets through and plays whom, but surely the
Premiership could be. I only have to miss a couple of home Prem
matches and the cost-per-game soars still further (and no,
ticket re-sale is not attractive). That all irritates me more
than the price.
#Post#: 105869--------------------------------------------------
Re: Membership renewal
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: March 17, 2023, 6:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Poorfour, I have no idea why you have appointed yourself to the
position of club apologist, responsible for giving the finger to
supporters who suffer from club-wrong-think.
#Post#: 105871--------------------------------------------------
Re: Membership renewal
DIR By: Kermitpower
Date: March 17, 2023, 6:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> So let's get this straight... you think that if a further 2
clubs go under financially, meaning that 1/3 of the league will
have failed, the club should give a discount and increase the
chances of it going under as well?
>
> We have this debate every year, but it's more serious this
year than at any point since the debacle of the late 90s.
>
> Rugby is currently sustained financially by the generosity of
owners who have literally spent decades pouring money into clubs
with no expectation of a short term return. We have seen up
close this year what happens when those owners run out of money,
patience or both, and it's increased the urgency for clubs to
become self-funding.
>
> For those that are confident of attracting good crowds, that
means higher ticket prices. And for Quins, it also means making
the most of the Big Stoop games and trying to develop the
Women's game so that they get revenue from the Stoop on more
matchdays.
>
> There aren't that many more ways for them to make money. The
tv deals and sponsorship are not magically going to get better
because the clubs are struggling. Matchday sales and merch are
driven by the crowds, and the club hasn't got any current
capacity to increase the crowds other than selling out
Twickenham or winning home knockout games.
>
> Ticket prices are probably the biggest lever they've got right
now, and with cold commeciality they will have tried to work out
what the highest prices are that they can charge and still fill
the ground, because that's the reality of the situation.
>
> That will make it unaffordable for some loyal fans, which is
hard. But it's less hard than having the club fail.
>
> Comparisons with Chelsea are interesting but a bit irrelevant.
Chelsea have a bigger stadium (which is also old and offers less
compared to its peers), a much higher proportion of revenue from
tv and sponsorship, and a billionaire backer rather than a mere
millionaire. Also, it's soccer which for me would be bad value
even if you paid me to watch it.
--- End Quote ---
I think there are two particularly important points to make with
regards to the bit I've bolded.
1. It's questionable whether either Wuss or Wasps are true
bell-weathers of the wider situation. I'm not trying to dismiss
the financial condition of the clubs, but from what I've seen,
Wasps seems to be a result of incompetence and taking a massive
gamble on relocating to a huge stadium with no local support (I
suspect if you could move that stadium to Twickenham, Quins
would sell it out on a regular basis), whereas much of what
we've seen about Wuss makes you wonder which side of the law the
actions of the owners will eventually be seen to fall on.
2. Is the salary cap going to destroy professional rugby? I
know it was introduced to try and ensure that clubs could stand
on their own two feet financially, and that a mega-wealthy sugar
daddy couldn't just buy success, but all these years later, the
clubs are still dependent on the wealth of their owners, and how
long is that likely to be forthcoming if the salary cap means
they're consistently losing some of their best players and are
left embarrassed in European competition? Nobody is going to
keep pouring cash into their nice, shiny toy if it's not nice
and shiny any more.
At the very least, I think World Rugby needs to look at
coordinated global salary caps so that no country has an unfair
advantage over others, as is currently bestowed on the French
clubs, for example. In the long run it doesn't really even
benefit the French or Irish clubs, because what's the point of
winning an uncompetitive European Cup competition that nobody
wants to watch?
#Post#: 105873--------------------------------------------------
Re: Membership renewal
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: March 17, 2023, 7:07 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Brown Bottle link ---
>
> Poorfour, I have no idea why you have appointed yourself to
the position of club apologist, responsible for giving the
finger to supporters who suffer from club-wrong-think.
>
--- End Quote ---
This seems beneath you, honestly. Poorfour might like to be The
Big Explainer but he's not wrong and he's not needling anyone.
The fact is the club is stuck between a rock and a hard place
and the real solutions are essentially beyond them. He is also
not wrong that someone treating the potential death of 2 more
professional clubs as being primarily about the loss of value to
their season ticket is a bit weird!
#Post#: 105875--------------------------------------------------
Re: Membership renewal
DIR By: East Sussex Chris
Date: March 17, 2023, 7:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Ok so the extra cost will bring in to the club about £1m, a lot
of money yes but not enough to secure our future, why are the
club not looking at an artificial pitch, and having all the
facilities in and around Twickenham, instead of Guildford. An
artificial pitch can be used all year round and by other clubs
both Soccer and Rugby, I hope the club have looked for other
revenue sources and potential infrastructure changes, but I
reckon they said 'lets try and fleece the fans first, if that
fails then we can look at something else'.
I also remember posting at the time that people were mad to
donate covid money to club, this is there way of thanking you.
Just out of interest what is the line from our supporters
association? I hope we stop passing on money to the club.
#Post#: 105876--------------------------------------------------
Re: Membership renewal
DIR By: Domestos
Date: March 17, 2023, 7:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
We have kicked this around for a number of years. The majority
of Prem club lose money every year. That is not a sustainable
business mode.
Exeter manage to break even every year. How? Why?
One fairly obvious answer is to reduce costs i.e. reduce players
and coaches wages.
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