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#Post#: 105679--------------------------------------------------
English specialists v jacks-of-all
DIR By: Aha!
Date: March 14, 2023, 6:31 pm
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Prompted by discussion in recent threads about playing out of
position....
Marler once took a line-out that cost England the game against
Scotland, because the level of professionalism in the England
camp was so poor that no-one else stepped up to throw a ball 5
metres. I think this lack of England professionalism is deeper
now than then - simply because the players haven't had time to
bed-in their positional skills with new teammates they've only
met recently. Let alone contribute 'bonus' skills.
Against Scotland on Sunday, Ireland's prop Healy hooked in
contested scrums because to go uncontested would have reduced
them to 14 men. His throwing is probably rubbish though.. but no
matter because Van der Flier took over the line-outs.
Both are specialists in their position but are also professional
enough to have practised for these eventualities in the lead up
to the game, because they don't need to practise their
positional skills in a settled team.
It's not a choice between specialist positions and
jacks-of-all-trades, it's a choice between committed
professionals in a confident team versus hoping for the best
with some people you don't really know.
In this regard I'm hopeful that Quins are more professional than
England, and that Marler and others have practised some
emergency skills.
#Post#: 105681--------------------------------------------------
Re: English specialists v jacks-of-all
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: March 15, 2023, 2:49 am
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How often does this happen?
Healy played hooker a lot as a kid and has been down as a
reserve hooker on Irish teamsheets for over a decade.
Vdf threw to the front every time and bafflingly Scotland just
let him.
#Post#: 105695--------------------------------------------------
Re: English specialists v jacks-of-all
DIR By: Camquin
Date: March 15, 2023, 5:36 am
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He threw to the front, but at least he got it to the jumper he
was aiming for.
The Scots line out was poor, but I think R. Gray is the main
line-out tactician. The person they rely on to make the calls,
both on their own ball and on the opposition. Again, it is the
case of not having enough cover. But also the difference between
players who can execute a plan well, and those that can make and
adapt a plan and communicate.
#Post#: 105696--------------------------------------------------
Re: English specialists v jacks-of-all
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: March 15, 2023, 6:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Aha! link ---
>
> Prompted by discussion in recent threads about playing out of
position....
>
> Marler once took a line-out that cost England the game against
Scotland, because the level of professionalism in the England
camp was so poor that no-one else stepped up to throw a ball 5
metres. I think this lack of England professionalism is deeper
now than then - simply because the players haven't had time to
bed-in their positional skills with new teammates they've only
met recently. Let alone contribute 'bonus' skills.
>
> Against Scotland on Sunday, Ireland's prop Healy hooked in
contested scrums because to go uncontested would have reduced
them to 14 men. His throwing is probably rubbish though.. but no
matter because Van der Flier took over the line-outs.
>
> Both are specialists in their position but are also
professional enough to have practised for these eventualities in
the lead up to the game, because they don't need to practise
their positional skills in a settled team.
>
> It's not a choice between specialist positions and
jacks-of-all-trades, it's a choice between committed
professionals in a confident team versus hoping for the best
with some people you don't really know.
>
> In this regard I'm hopeful that Quins are more professional
than England, and that Marler and others have practised some
emergency skills.
>
--- End Quote ---
How do you know Marler hadn't been practicing for months and
just ballsed it up on the day?
#Post#: 105697--------------------------------------------------
Re: English specialists v jacks-of-all
DIR By: never sleep
Date: March 15, 2023, 6:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Brown Bottle link ---
>
> How do you know Marler hadn't been practicing for months and
just ballsed it up on the day?
>
--- End Quote ---
I seem to remember that he was interviewed afterwards. I think
that he mentioned that he had both:
- never done it before, and
- ballsed it up on the day
#Post#: 105701--------------------------------------------------
Re: English specialists v jacks-of-all
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: March 15, 2023, 7:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: never sleep link ---
>
> I seem to remember that he was interviewed afterwards. I think
that he mentioned that he had both:
> - never done it before, and
> - ballsed it up on the day
>
--- End Quote ---
That's what I'd have said. 😁
#Post#: 105704--------------------------------------------------
Re: English specialists v jacks-of-all
DIR By: Quanks
Date: March 15, 2023, 8:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
It's all hindsight to fit a narrative isn't it - Healy's come
out and said he hasn't hit a live scrum at Hooker since 2008,
and has done a few set-ups at best since. The biggest credit
should go to Ireland's team manager for listing Healy as
qualified to play Hooker on the team sheet. I do wonder what
would happen if heaven forbid something had gone wrong and Healy
was badly injured, particularly if there could be any
ramifications for those who declared he was suitably trained.
#Post#: 105708--------------------------------------------------
Re: English specialists v jacks-of-all
DIR By: Nico Wilson
Date: March 15, 2023, 10:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: never sleep link ---
>
> I seem to remember that he was interviewed afterwards. I think
that he mentioned that he had both:
> - never done it before, and
> - ballsed it up on the day
>
--- End Quote ---
Let's not forget Marler's 100% perfect record at converting his
own tries.
#Post#: 105711--------------------------------------------------
Re: English specialists v jacks-of-all
DIR By: Carbonm
Date: March 15, 2023, 11:41 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: RodneyRegis link ---
>
> How often does this happen?
>
> Healy played hooker a lot as a kid and has been down as a
reserve hooker on Irish teamsheets for over a decade.
>
> Vdf threw to the front every time and bafflingly Scotland just
let him.
>
--- End Quote ---
On the BBC rugby pod they said he threw mainly to the front but
mixed it up a few times. They also couldn't believe Scotland
didn't adapt and change their game plan.
I agree with the OP though, why does it only seem to be the
hooker who practices throwing in? I have a vague memory of
Marchant throwing in for us and it was a disaster (unless I
dreamt this!) It's a specialist skill but you'd think a
professional team would spend a bit of time on this for the
purpose of injuries, yellow/red cards etc. It looked like
Ireland had planned for all eventualities.
#Post#: 105718--------------------------------------------------
Re: English specialists v jacks-of-all
DIR By: KentQuin
Date: March 15, 2023, 1:29 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Carbonm link ---
>
> I have a vague memory of Marchant throwing in for us and it
was a disaster (unless I dreamt this!)
>
--- End Quote ---
You didn't dream it.
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