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#Post#: 104872--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith gets 15 second
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: February 27, 2023, 8:13 am
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--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> ...
> or the depression I feel over Wigglesworth coming in to
replace NEv
> ...
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks, I'd forgotten about that! ☹️
#Post#: 104873--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith gets 15 second
DIR By: poorfour
Date: February 27, 2023, 8:17 am
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One of the tries in the 2021 Prem final was created because
Danny and Marcus saw that Cuthbert was dazed and O'Flaherty
(IIRC) was limping and repeatedly kicked the ball to Exeter
until their back three were out of position and there was space
to send Andre up the opposite wing. Clever kicking wins matches.
For me, the issue with the kicking at the moment isn't the
tactical 22-to-22 stuff, which Farrell (and England) have
generally been good at. It's the kicking possession away in the
opposition 22, which Farrell tried 3 times against Italy to no
benefit - there was one undercooked kick pass to the wing, and
two grubbers that had too much on them for the chasing players
to claim.
That England are doing it so regularly suggests it's clearly a
deliberate tactic, and it's very much a Nick Evans tactic. But
it's a tactic that works when you have a player with Marcus's
(or possibly George Ford's) touch on the ball - Farrell doesn't
do that kind of kicking regularly and he isn't precise enough
for it to work at this level. Contrast that with the kick pass
against Scotland, which was one of the few bits of red zone
attack that worked that day.
#Post#: 104874--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith gets 15 second
DIR By: oakhaven
Date: February 27, 2023, 8:31 am
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--- Quote from: RodneyRegis link ---
>
> I keep hearing the absolute nonsense that the team who wins
kicks the most in defence of Farrell/England.
>
> Please understand I'm not levelling this at you.
>
> Care suggested on commentary that Borthwick would have a
clipboard and be noting down how many times we had kicked and
how many times Wales kicked because, as far as he was concerned,
if we kick more we win.
>
> He was obviously being sarcastic. There's nothing wrong with
kicking, and of course it's a massive part of winning and
losing, but the point is that you have to kick well, not kick a
lot. Most of England's kicking has been poorly executed, and in
many cases downright profligate.
>
> Yes, you have to kick a lot to force mistakes and engineer
space elsewhere. That does NOT mean that you just kick away good
attacking ball, because "most kicks wins".
>
> Nobody is saying don't kick, or at least nobody with any
knowledge of the game whatsoever, they are saying "don't kick
badly/don't kick away overlaps."
>
> I mean it's literally the same as somebody running into 4
defenders and ignoring a 5-man overlap and saying that you have
to win the collisions.
>
--- End Quote ---
I don't disagree on the whole, in that what matters most is the
execution of the kick and picking the right moment. Trust me, I
was getting just as wound up watching Farrell kick the ball away
fruitlessly in the opposition 22 off front-foot ball, not least
because it's a tactic that can work if it is carried out
properly and everyone is on the same page (e.g. Huw Jones' try v
England), but in those instances it was clearly being done on
the hoof without any proper chasers who could genuinely contest
for the ball.
#Post#: 104875--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith gets 15 second
DIR By: T-Bone
Date: February 27, 2023, 8:52 am
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It's depressing that pundits are citing Farrell's work at the
breakdown as a reason he's a good 10. I know that modern day 10s
can't be excused all defensive duties, but they should be a 10
first and their abilities as a flanker should be very much
secondary.
Others say he can't be dropped because he's our defensive
captain. Then get another defensive captain, probably your 12.
Others say his leadership is invaluable. Firstly, I'd expect all
internationals to give 100% effort / give their all / whatever
completely unmeasurable cliche you want to use. Smith, for
example, has never struck me as a lazy players. There has also
been plenty of games where things are going wrong and I've seen
nothing that demonstrates that farrell can adapt a gameplan to
turn things around. In fact he usually just gets frustrated and
starts gobbing off to the officials and his teammates.
There are these intangible qualities that we're all told about,
and every coach he's ever had commends him on them, but perhaps
they should focus on his on-field output a bit more
If Smith or Ford played for Sarries their stats would be insane
#Post#: 104877--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith gets 15 second
DIR By: Camquin
Date: February 27, 2023, 9:13 am
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And if you want someone to put in a delicately weighted kick
pass, you want Smith, not Farrell.
#Post#: 104878--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith gets 15 second
DIR By: Camquin
Date: February 27, 2023, 9:40 am
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Farrell's overall kicking is at 82%, but this season he is at
72% taking all games for Saracens and England.
For comparison, Marcus overall kicking percentage is 79% - this
year 88%.
Numbers from Statbunker.
#Post#: 104879--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith gets 15 second
DIR By: Yareet
Date: February 27, 2023, 9:45 am
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--- Quote from: Camquin link ---
>
> Farrell's kicking has rarely got above 70%.
> His defence is suspect - though I admit his worst mistake come
when playing as a centre.
> And he kicks away too much ball, and you cannot attack without
the ball.
>
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote from: Camquin link ---
>
> Farrell's overall kicking is at 82%, but this season he is at
72% taking all games for Saracens and England.
>
> For comparison, Marcus overall kicking percentage is 79% -
this year 88%.
>
> Numbers from Statbunker.
>
--- End Quote ---
🤔
#Post#: 104880--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith gets 15 second
DIR By: baggie
Date: February 27, 2023, 10:46 am
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--- Quote from: RodneyRegis link ---
>
>
>
> Care suggested on commentary that Borthwick would have a
clipboard and be noting down how many times we had kicked and
how many times Wales kicked because, as far as he was concerned,
if we kick more we win.
>
> He was obviously being sarcastic.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
What makes you think he was being sarcastic ?
This is the essence of what Saracens & Leicester have done in
recent years and it has worked for them in terms of trophies won
… at the top level most sports operate on the “copycat”
principle, i.e. if it worked for someone else it can work for us
This is despite the evidence we have seen from the international
game that “ball in hand” is now the way to play … as per
Scotland & Italy who have both made significant improvements
this year and are trying to emulate what Ireland & France do …
England are going in the opposite direction
#Post#: 104883--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith gets 15 second
DIR By: Quinky
Date: February 27, 2023, 11:48 am
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--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> But we know from his play with Sarries that Farrell does have
more to his game. Sarries have scored the second highest number
of tries in the Prem this season (not a perfect measure but
hopefully useful) and Farrell has been recognised as being
behind the change in their philosophy.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
That's comparing a team of internationals playing a team of
internationals, with a team of internationals playing against a
Premiership team.
#Post#: 104890--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith gets 15 second
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: February 27, 2023, 4:09 pm
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--- Quote from: Camquin link ---
>
> And if you want someone to put in a delicately weighted kick
pass, you want Smith, not Farrell.
>
--- End Quote ---
The cross kick is something Marcus is not actually very good at
despite trying it all the time...
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