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#Post#: 104854--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith gets 15 second
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: February 27, 2023, 6:01 am
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--- Quote from: MaidstoneQuin link ---
>
> I don’t even really get where Smiths defence being crap has
come from. He tackles way above his weight. As for Faz, he has
at least one red card in him per season for his tackling.
England have gotten lucky so far with poor kicks being run back
at them, but I don’t think France/Ireland will be as forgiving.
>
> Sod’s Law dictates Faz will try a grubber, it will bounce off
DuPonts shin, for him to collect and run in for a score. Angry,
the next phase Faz will poleaxe him for a red
>
--- End Quote ---
Good.
It's actually my dream that Fazz gets a red early in a game, we
lose very badly and he gets a few weeks off.
#Post#: 104856--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith gets 15 second
DIR By: Yareet
Date: February 27, 2023, 6:12 am
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For clarity, I'm not saying that Farrell is the answer but can
we at least try to keep to some facts?
He's had (I believe) 2 reds in an 11-year career. Neither were
for England. Hardly one per season. He's also had 6 yellows
apparently. For me, that doesn't scream that he's constantly on
the verge of a ban.
HTML https://all.rugby/player/owen-farrell
As for his kicking, apparently his stats for England 2019-2022
were around 79%.
(
HTML https://www.rugbypass.com/players/owen-farrell).
Is that good
enough? Probably not quite but it's clearly incorrect to say
he's rarely got above 70% - especially as in some years, he's
been as high as the mid-80s.
#Post#: 104860--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith gets 15 second
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: February 27, 2023, 6:38 am
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Right. The problem with Farrell's defence is that for every game
where he is huge in defence, he'll have one where he misses a
hatful.
His kicking is on an extended bad streak but it shouldn't be
used to hide the other problems with his game, i.e. his decision
making, refusal to run, kick execution, and turning down of
attacking opportunities with ball in hand.
Ford is just as "bad" as Smith in defence fwiw. He rarely stops
anyone on the gainline. He's learned to cope in the same way
that Smith does - hang on where possible and wait for support,
or ankle tackle where appropriate. There's really no measurable
difference between them.
#Post#: 104864--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith gets 15 second
DIR By: Yareet
Date: February 27, 2023, 7:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> Right. The problem with Farrell's defence is that for every
game where he is huge in defence, he'll have one where he misses
a hatful.
>
> His kicking is on an extended bad streak but it shouldn't be
used to hide the other problems with his game, i.e. his decision
making, refusal to run, kick execution, and turning down of
attacking opportunities with ball in hand.
>
> Ford is just as "bad" as Smith in defence fwiw. He rarely
stops anyone on the gainline. He's learned to cope in the same
way that Smith does - hang on where possible and wait for
support, or ankle tackle where appropriate. There's really no
measurable difference between them.
>
--- End Quote ---
But we know from his play with Sarries that Farrell does have
more to his game. Sarries have scored the second highest number
of tries in the Prem this season (not a perfect measure but
hopefully useful) and Farrell has been recognised as being
behind the change in their philosophy.
In the past (/for other players), the opinion has been that the
player is playing to instruction. Again, I can understand why
Borthwick et al would want to build some solid foundations based
on more pragmatic play.
England scored tries out wide again on Saturday. The were signs
of more aesthetic play v Italy (Malins' non-try). The consensus
of the ex-player opinions I've read is that each week we are
improving.
#Post#: 104866--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith gets 15 second
DIR By: Donuts
Date: February 27, 2023, 7:14 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Premiership player stats show he has made 9 appearances for
Sarries
79 Tackles 7 Try assists 1 clean break 74 kicks from Hand 7
turnovers won
Marcus has only played four league games for us and his numbers
are 41/3/2/45/0
#Post#: 104867--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith gets 15 second
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: February 27, 2023, 7:16 am
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--- Quote from: Donuts link ---
>
> Premiership player stats show he has made 9 appearances for
Sarries
> 79 Tackles 7 Try assists 1 clean break 74 kicks from Hand 7
turnovers won
> Marcus has only played four league games for us and his
numbers are 41/3/2/45/0
>
--- End Quote ---
Nothing in it then.
#Post#: 104868--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith gets 15 second
DIR By: oakhaven
Date: February 27, 2023, 7:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I'm not entirely sure kicking from hand necessarily equates to
negative play. I seem to recall a stat about Quins kicking more
than most (maybe even all?) sides in 2020-21, and we all know
what ended up happening that season. If you're able to kick
more, and better, than the opposition, you'll tend to win
matches by creating space in the back field, pushing defending
players out of position and gaining territory. Just look at
France - they kick more than any side in the 6 Nations but no
one ever accuses them of being boring (at least not in the last
couple of years).
#Post#: 104869--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith gets 15 second
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: February 27, 2023, 7:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> But we know from his play with Sarries that Farrell does have
more to his game. Sarries have scored the second highest number
of tries in the Prem this season (not a perfect measure but
hopefully useful) and Farrell has been recognised as being
behind the change in their philosophy.
>
> In the past (/for other players), the opinion has been that
the player is playing to instruction. Again, I can understand
why Borthwick et al would want to build some solid foundations
based on more pragmatic play.
>
> England scored tries out wide again on Saturday. The were
signs of more aesthetic play v Italy (Malins' non-try). The
consensus of the ex-player opinions I've read is that each week
we are improving.
>
--- End Quote ---
Farrell plays to a system at Saracens that has been honed over
years. Yeah, they're attacking more now, but it's a machine
where everyone has a job and everyone does that job very well.
There's a reason why their standards don't drop very much when
Farrell is absent and they can put a bunch of different players
at 10 with great success. He is a very good rugby player, but we
are long, long past the point where we can just blame the system
for his personal mistakes.
The system didn't make him repeatedly kick the ball into
defenders. The system didn't make him decide to kick when 10m
from the line, a gap in front of him, and an overlap outside
him. The system didn't make him kick it straight out. The system
didn't make him refuse to run, or to turn down every major
attacking opportunity that wasn't straight from the training
ground. The system calls for a pressure game, but every coach
still wants good decisions being made, and skills being executed
correctly, and players to make good reads.
Owen Farrell has played 10 for England many, many times. His
history at 10 for England is littered with performances like
this. No matter how good he is for Saracens, that world class
flyhalf tag is not backed up by the strength of his performances
at 10 for England. His entire time as a flyhalf for England has
been divisive precisely because of the failing he shows over and
over.
Can Farrell play a fancier brand of rugby for Saracens? Yes, for
sure. Can he do it for England? Maybe. But for whatever reason,
his instincts have usually been for the negative approach, often
poorly executed. This is not to excuse Borthwick's incredibly
retrograde attitude to rugby, or the depression I feel over
Wigglesworth coming in to replace NEv, or any number of ways in
which we are doing rugby in this country a disservice by being
so incredibly conservative, but there is the game plan and then
there is the discussion of how that game plan is executed on the
pitch.
#Post#: 104870--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith gets 15 second
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: February 27, 2023, 7:36 am
---------------------------------------------------------
And let's be honest about the elephant in the room here: it's
easy to turn up the attacking rugby when you have that squad.
#Post#: 104871--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith gets 15 second
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: February 27, 2023, 8:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: oakhaven link ---
>
> I'm not entirely sure kicking from hand necessarily equates to
negative play. I seem to recall a stat about Quins kicking more
than most (maybe even all?) sides in 2020-21, and we all know
what ended up happening that season. If you're able to kick
more, and better, than the opposition, you'll tend to win
matches by creating space in the back field, pushing defending
players out of position and gaining territory. Just look at
France - they kick more than any side in the 6 Nations but no
one ever accuses them of being boring (at least not in the last
couple of years).
>
--- End Quote ---
I keep hearing the absolute nonsense that the team who wins
kicks the most in defence of Farrell/England.
Please understand I'm not levelling this at you.
Care suggested on commentary that Borthwick would have a
clipboard and be noting down how many times we had kicked and
how many times Wales kicked because, as far as he was concerned,
if we kick more we win.
He was obviously being sarcastic. There's nothing wrong with
kicking, and of course it's a massive part of winning and
losing, but the point is that you have to kick well, not kick a
lot. Most of England's kicking has been poorly executed, and in
many cases downright profligate.
Yes, you have to kick a lot to force mistakes and engineer space
elsewhere. That does NOT mean that you just kick away good
attacking ball, because "most kicks wins".
Nobody is saying don't kick, or at least nobody with any
knowledge of the game whatsoever, they are saying "don't kick
badly/don't kick away overlaps."
I mean it's literally the same as somebody running into 4
defenders and ignoring a 5-man overlap and saying that you have
to win the collisions.
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