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#Post#: 104532--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ethnicity in British Rugby
DIR By: Kermitpower
Date: February 19, 2023, 2:54 pm
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It is simply not possible to use opportunity of outcome in
rugby, because the numbers are too small.
My son's year group at the club has around 60 boys turning up on
a regular basis. Two of them are of Indian heritage. That's
3.3%, which is slightly above the national population share from
the 2021 census, and probably above average for our local area.
So far, so good. You could say that we've got equality of
outcome.
Next step, though, is putting candidates forwards to the Quins
DPP trials. We put 4 candidates forward last year. As it
happens, one of the Indian lads was one of them. We've now got
25% Indian representation. Obviously that's NOT equality of
outcome, but we couldn't just send a foot, could we?
Sadly, he wasn't selected. As his dad said afterwards,
absolutely no complaints of any sort, he just didn't really put
his best game out there on the day. A shame for him, but now
we've got 0% Indian heritage representation, so clearly no
equality of outcome. We do still have the lad playing for us
and enjoying his rugby, but if we're measuring equality of
outcome, in theory we've failed.
You can roll that all the way up to the top of the tree as well.
There are many thousands of kids playing in each age group
across the country, and of all of them, maybe what, 40 a year
might land a contract across the 14 academies as a whole? With
such tiny numbers, one player one way or the other completely
blows the stats.
#Post#: 104533--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ethnicity in British Rugby
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: February 19, 2023, 3:00 pm
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Err... sample size springs to mind. Plus again not reading what
people have actually posted.
#Post#: 104534--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ethnicity in British Rugby
DIR By: Kermitpower
Date: February 19, 2023, 3:09 pm
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--- Quote from: raedarius link ---
>
> Similarly, not that long ago, I was told by a representative
of another club that the schools, not the clubs, are the real
focus for Academy intake.
>
> Quins still field a largely 'good school' U18 team,
notwithstanding their realisation about talent elsewhere (I
realise that Gordon's is the partnership school for Quins U17-18
- are any others?):
>
>
HTML https://www.quins.co.uk/article/harlequins-u18s-name-side-for-gloucester-u18s-match
>
--- End Quote ---
I think that's a bit chicken and egg.
A handful of my son's club team made it into the Quins DPP, and
only one of them is at a traditional rugby private school, so I
don't think it's really fair to say that Quins just look to the
schools.
On the other hand, I help out a bit with rugby at my lad's
school - a state comp that punches way above its weight - so get
a bit of insight into the coaching and other resources that some
of the private schools have, along with their ability to buy in
strong players through full scholarships and the like, and it's
pretty clear that boys playing for those schools are of course
likely to make the most of their potential. With the best will
in the world, full time teachers with years of experience really
should be able to get better results than even the keenest and
best parents coaching their lads through in a single age group.
That doesn't stop some of those schools pushing their lads to
also play for clubs for more and different experience, even if
it can cause significant friction when they're seen as being
parachuted in ahead of kids who've been at the club since they
were 5, so clearly the clubs are still valued!
#Post#: 104535--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ethnicity in British Rugby
DIR By: championes
Date: February 19, 2023, 3:28 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> That would be the same Jordan Peterson who rather perfectly
explains the pitfalls of chasing equality of outcome?
>
--- End Quote ---
Just to be 100% clear. Peterson is a dangerous moron who makes a
lot of money out of telling sad little men it’s ok to hate and
blame women for their failings. So I’d probably give him a miss
and stick to watching rugby.
#Post#: 104536--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ethnicity in British Rugby
DIR By: Kermitpower
Date: February 19, 2023, 3:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Brown Bottle link ---
>
> Err... sample size springs to mind. Plus again not reading
what people have actually posted.
>
--- End Quote ---
I've read what you said, but you've repeated the problem
yourself here. The sample size is too small to be statistically
significant, not only in absolute terms but even in terms of
measuring divergence.
#Post#: 104537--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ethnicity in British Rugby
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: February 19, 2023, 5:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Kermitpower link ---
>
> I've read what you said, but you've repeated the problem
yourself here. The sample size is too small to be statistically
significant, not only in absolute terms but even in terms of
measuring divergence.
>
--- End Quote ---
Umm.. yes that's exactly why I mentioned sample size. And the
bit about not reading...
#Post#: 104570--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ethnicity in British Rugby
DIR By: Quinky
Date: February 20, 2023, 11:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: championes link ---
>
> Just to be 100% clear. Peterson is a dangerous moron who makes
a lot of money out of telling sad little men it’s ok to hate and
blame women for their failings. So I’d probably give him a miss
and stick to watching rugby.
>
--- End Quote ---
Hmmm... Internationally renowned professor and best-selling
author is described as a moron by... keyboard warrior?
Whom to have faith in...?
#Post#: 104571--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ethnicity in British Rugby
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: February 20, 2023, 11:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> Hmmm... Internationally renowned professor
> ...
>
--- End Quote ---
No he isn't. He's well known because he's a nutcase but he has
little academic credibility.
#Post#: 104572--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ethnicity in British Rugby
DIR By: Quinten Poulsen
Date: February 20, 2023, 11:59 am
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--- Quote ---
> Peterson is a dangerous moron who makes a lot of money out of
telling sad little men it’s ok to hate and blame women for their
failings.
--- End Quote ---
Are there any examples of this?
#Post#: 104573--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ethnicity in British Rugby
DIR By: Quinky
Date: February 20, 2023, 12:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Brown Bottle link ---
>
> No he isn't. He's well known because he's a nutcase but he has
little academic credibility.
>
--- End Quote ---
Hmm... Associate Professor, Harvard University, author of
hundreds of academic papers, professor at University of
Toronto... versus poster on an internet forum who rarely utters
more than a sentence. It's tough working out who has more
credibility...
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