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#Post#: 100196--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jones knows he's going
DIR By: raedarius
Date: December 7, 2022, 7:12 am
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--- Quote from: DOK link ---
>
> Borthwick is the RFU's man but he wouldn't be my choice - Andy
Goode
HTML https://www.rugbypass.com/news/borthwick-is-the-rfus-man-but-he-wouldnt-be-my-choice-andy-goode/
>
--- End Quote ---
Excellent - it is imperative that we know what Andy Goode's
choice is. Thank heavens he appreciates this and is reluctantly
willing to inform us.
#Post#: 100201--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jones knows he's going
DIR By: DOK
Date: December 7, 2022, 7:49 am
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--- Quote from: raedarius link ---
>
> Excellent - it is imperative that we know what Andy Goode's
choice is. Thank heavens he appreciates this and is reluctantly
willing to inform us.
>
--- End Quote ---
Indeed. I'm surprised you weren't more grateful for the public
service I provide. [emoji4]
#Post#: 100203--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jones knows he's going
DIR By: DOK
Date: December 7, 2022, 7:54 am
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RFU sends Jones packing but English rugby’s problems won’t go
with him
HTML https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2022/dec/07/rfu-eddie-jones-packing-english-rugby-problems-wont-go-with-him
Some interesting points to consider here. A good question if
we'd beaten NZ and Argentina would EJ have survived? I suspect
quite possibly because the crowd reaction to losing to South
Africa would have been more muted.
--- Quote ---
> Jones wasn’t let go just because of what happened in those two
matches, he has made a series of escalating mistakes, the main
one, as he said, that he let his focus drift too far ahead from
the next game. He would have got away with rest of it, the
flibbertigibbet selections, his ruthless way with his players
and assistant coaches, his persistence with an attacking system
that wasn’t really working, if the team had been winning in the
meantime. But Jones was more caught up worrying about the next
World Cup than whether they were ready for their next Test.
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 100205--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jones knows he's going
DIR By: Audi Quintro
Date: December 7, 2022, 8:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DOK link ---
>
> RFU sends Jones packing but English rugby’s problems won’t go
with him
HTML https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2022/dec/07/rfu-eddie-jones-packing-english-rugby-problems-wont-go-with-him
>
> Some interesting points to consider here. A good question if
we'd beaten NZ and Argentina would EJ have survived? I suspect
quite possibly because the crowd reaction to losing to South
Africa would have been more muted.
>
--- End Quote ---
Good points there but I suspect a victory over the Pumas and the
All Blacks would have just been papering over the cracks.
England are currently way off the pace of France, Ireland and
SA.
#Post#: 100206--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jones knows he's going
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: December 7, 2022, 8:56 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DOK link ---
>
> This was interesting
> [img width=239
height=410]
HTML https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FjXFN7aWIAAU-ak?format=png&name=small[/img]
>
> If you think of the screw up the RFU made in firing Clive
Woodward as too expensive and confrontational, appointing Andy
Robinson as the cheap option...
>
--- End Quote ---
The RFU didn't sack Clive Woodward.
He resigned because he was given unprecedented access to players
in the 4(?) years prior to the RWC in order to give England the
best chance of winning it. Once we had won it, PRL said right
we'll have our players back now and we'll tell you when you can
have them this time
When Andy Robinson was offered the job CW told him not to accept
it unless he could get some guarantees over access to the
players. AR ignored this advice.
It never ceases to amaze me (well it probably does now
🙂) that so many people who follow premiership rugby are
surprised that England and France, the only two countries where
the clubs are in charge, but who have the largest player pools
and money available have only 1 World Cup between them compared
with the 8 shared by the SH countries.
Actually, not only that but we often struggle to beat our Celtic
neighbours.
#Post#: 100207--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jones knows he's going
DIR By: Audi Quintro
Date: December 7, 2022, 9:22 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Brown Bottle link ---
>
> The RFU didn't sack Clive Woodward.
>
> He resigned because he was given unprecedented access to
players in the 4(?) years prior to the RWC in order to give
England the best chance of winning it. Once we had won it, PRL
said right we'll have our players back now and we'll tell you
when you can have them this time
>
> When Andy Robinson was offered the job CW told him not to
accept it unless he could get some guarantees over access to the
players. AR ignored this advice.
>
> It never ceases to amaze me (well it probably does now
🙂) that so many people who follow premiership rugby are
surprised that England and France, the only two countries where
the clubs are in charge, but who have the largest player pools
and money available have only 1 World Cup between them compared
with the 8 shared by the SH countries.
>
> Actually, not only that but we often struggle to beat our
Celtic neighbours.
>
--- End Quote ---
Statically speaking, the countries that win world cups have an
average of 4 club teams. I appreciate that Wales and Ireland
don’t know much about winning world cups though
#Post#: 100208--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jones knows he's going
DIR By: Camquin
Date: December 7, 2022, 9:39 am
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How do those stats look if you take out games against second
tier nations.
Beating Japan does not tell you much.
Losing to Scotland does.
#Post#: 100214--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jones knows he's going
DIR By: Aha!
Date: December 7, 2022, 1:59 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Camquin link ---
>
> How do those stats look if you take out games against second
tier nations.
> Beating Japan does not tell you much.
> Losing to Scotland does.
>
--- End Quote ---
The Scotland example is a very pertinent example of wrong
priorities and lack of respect. While nothing mattered except
the World Cup, England have beaten Scotland just once in their
last 5 meetings. This matters to both England and Scotland, but
not to E Jones.
#Post#: 100224--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jones knows he's going
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: December 8, 2022, 3:24 am
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I can never forgive Jones for his approach to anything but the
RWC as being of secondary importance. Then coming out with
comments about the poor standard of English rugby players in
general. To me it is absolutely just as important to be
competitive in 6 Nations & AI's as it is in the RWC. It makes me
wonder how badly structured Jones incentives were.
#Post#: 100241--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jones knows he's going
DIR By: Yareet
Date: December 8, 2022, 6:13 am
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IMO, Jones is far from the only national coach to focus purely
on the World Cup - and fans do the same.
In 2018, Ireland were all-conquering - winning a Slam and
beating NZ. Even at the time there was talk of them "peaking too
early". Too early for what if the focus wasn't the World Cup?
England Women won an incredible 30 games on the spin including 4
successive 6 Nations; 3 of them Slams. As soon as they lost the
World Cup final, there were calls for Middleton to stand down.
Ultimately those 30 games seemed to mean very little without a
World Cup to show for it.
Between the '07 and '11 World Cups, NZ won 17/22 Tri-Nations
matches including two titles; one of them a Slam. They also held
the Bledisloe for the entire 4 years (I'd argue that would
comparable to the Calcutta Cup). Yet Graham Henry was fighting
for his job because they lost the World Cup quarter final.
Under Stuart Lancaster, England were 2nd in the 6N every year.
He's remembered as the guy who led us out at the group stages of
the World Cup and Robshaw as the Captain who chose to kick to
the corner.
Gatland's Wales teams (12 years) won 4 6N; 3 of them Slams.
Woodward's England teams (7 years) won 3 5/6N; 1 Slam. Whilst
Woodward may have coached an England team to another Slam or two
if he'd have had 5 more years, that's not the reason he's the
one with a Knighthood.
France are currently one of the favourites for the World Cup.
They have won a Slam this season as part of an unbeaten calendar
12 months. I don't remember seeing a men's team do that before.
However, they could feasibly lose their quarter final (as they
probably play Ireland or SA). I doubt Galthie's reign would then
be seen as a success.
The media will often bemoan Jones for claiming that only the
World Cup matters. Yet if a team doesn't get as far as expected,
the media (and fans) will say it is time for the coach to go.
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