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#Post#: 100166--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jones knows he's going
DIR By: Mayor West
Date: December 6, 2022, 12:53 pm
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Borthwick is a fun sponge by all accounts. Playing for England
will be a very serious affair. Isn’t that part of the problem
now. Can’t see much change from Eddie with Steve.
#Post#: 100168--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jones knows he's going
DIR By: Thegp
Date: December 6, 2022, 1:31 pm
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Good news for Quins as no chance of Care being called up, Marcus
will be lucky to get a game and I doubt Dombrandt will be there
either
Borthwick will be dull, bring a more competitive and cohesive
team, but I doubt we’ll do much at the RWC. It’s the wrong
appointment, he needed longer as a club coach
#Post#: 100171--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jones knows he's going
DIR By: KentQuin
Date: December 6, 2022, 2:03 pm
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--- Quote from: MaidstoneQuin link ---
>
> As bad as EJ was to the end of his tenure, the other backroom
staff are equally culpable.
>
> A merry go round of coaches (including some bizarre
appointments of clearly underwhelming candidates) and lackluster
corporate yes men like COS all share the blame.
>
> Sweeney equally should go but I doubt that will happen.
>
> It all reminds me of where I work, in that things become very
institutionalized as senior management surround themselves, and
managers below them, with people of a similar approach to
things. When things continue to get worse, there's some
sacrificial lamb and some word salad but more of the same. What
you really need is entire departments to be shaken up and people
from outside the organization brought in, who don't have any
allegiances or agendas, to actually crack the whip.
>
--- End Quote ---
In their defence, the merry go round of coaches is down to Jones
and it sounds as though they've been given very little autonomy.
And Jones has used them as a buffer to deflect from his own
failings.
No issue with Cockerill as an interim. Just hope the RFU are
going all out for Scott Robertson. Borthwick will just play a
dull attrional game. See last year's Prem final.
Winning isn't enough. England need a complete revamp in terms of
playing style and Robertson can deliver that.
#Post#: 100172--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jones knows he's going
DIR By: Quinspirational
Date: December 6, 2022, 2:27 pm
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Does anyone believe EJ had a long term plan for the World Cup or
was he just buying time as he was running out of ideas ??
#Post#: 100174--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jones knows he's going
DIR By: MaidstoneQuin
Date: December 6, 2022, 3:00 pm
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--- Quote from: KentQuin link ---
>
> In their defence, the merry go round of coaches is down to
Jones and it sounds as though they've been given very little
autonomy. And Jones has used them as a buffer to deflect from
his own failings.
>
> No issue with Cockerill as an interim. Just hope the RFU are
going all out for Scott Robertson. Borthwick will just play a
dull attrional game. See last year's Prem final.
>
> Winning isn't enough. England need a complete revamp in terms
of playing style and Robertson can deliver that.
>
--- End Quote ---
The turnover of staff should have been a red flag to the RFU
long ago, but it was ignored. Like with other inept run
organisations, no one really becomes concerned at the turnover
and just stuck their heads in the sand as someone else fills the
post so it’s job done.
I’m hoping for Robertson also, as it will be a radical new take
on things. This is no more a risk, than going for someone who’s
really only starting out in a top job position and who really
hasn’t set the world alight with some breath of fresh air
approach.
I imagine what it will come down to, is who is going to cause
less of a headache for the RFU.
The RFU approaches things as “well we’ve always done it that
way”, when really what’s needed is someone to come in and make
the RFU say “I can’t believe we’ve never done it this way
before….”
#Post#: 100187--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jones knows he's going
DIR By: exdublinquin
Date: December 7, 2022, 4:08 am
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--- Quote from: MaidstoneQuin link ---
>
> The turnover of staff should have been a red flag to the RFU
long ago, but it was ignored. Like with other inept run
organisations, no one really becomes concerned at the turnover
and just stuck their heads in the sand as someone else fills the
post so it’s job done.
>
> I’m hoping for Robertson also, as it will be a radical new
take on things. This is no more a risk, than going for someone
who’s really only starting out in a top job position and who
really hasn’t set the world alight with some breath of fresh air
approach.
>
>
> I imagine what it will come down to, is who is going to cause
less of a headache for the RFU.
>
> The RFU approaches things as “well we’ve always done it that
way”, when really what’s needed is someone to come in and make
the RFU say “I can’t believe we’ve never done it this way
before….”
>
--- End Quote ---
Totally agree
#Post#: 100188--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jones knows he's going
DIR By: Audi Quintro
Date: December 7, 2022, 4:26 am
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--- Quote from: Quinspirational link ---
>
> Does anyone believe EJ had a long term plan for the World Cup
or was he just buying time as he was running out of ideas ??
>
--- End Quote ---
I have no doubt that EJ believed that he had a long term plan.
The is zero evidence that he actually had one.
#Post#: 100191--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jones knows he's going
DIR By: T-Bone
Date: December 7, 2022, 5:48 am
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--- Quote from: Quinspirational link ---
>
> Does anyone believe EJ had a long term plan for the World Cup
or was he just buying time as he was running out of ideas ??
>
--- End Quote ---
If you look on social media quite a few people do, including
several of the self-proclaimed experts. This idea that he was
holding back loads of amazing ideas and plays which would have
blown the opposition away and taken the world by storm next year
is fairly ludicrous.
We got to the final in 2019 as Australia weren't very good and
we put in a great 80-minute performance against NZ. There was
nothing ground-breaking. It was a great result, but I don't buy
the idea that he'd been holding something back which we revealed
in the knock-out stages to great effect. Come the final, the
genius Jones forgot that you need to be good at the set piece to
beat SA. He doesn't seem to have learnt the lesson 3 years on.
We won in 2003, whether you give Woodward any credit for it or
not, because for a prolonged period beforehand the team was
steadily improving, with an established core of players, playing
a style which they all understood and bought in to. There were a
couple of bolters maybe and a few selections which couldn't have
been predicted with absolute certainty, but generally it was the
best players in their proper positions.
I realise that teams might work on set moves which they might
spring on teams as a surprise, but no successful team plays
badly for a couple of years as part of some cunning masterplan
#Post#: 100193--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jones knows he's going
DIR By: DOK
Date: December 7, 2022, 6:59 am
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This was interesting
[img width=239
height=410]
HTML https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FjXFN7aWIAAU-ak?format=png&name=small[/img]
If you think of the screw up the RFU made in firing Clive
Woodward as too expensive and confrontational, appointing Andy
Robinson as the cheap option, Brian Ashton as the left field
option, Martin Johnson as the popular option it's not surprising
that Eddie Jones is able to quote a percentage win better than
previous coaches given only Clive Woodward played as many tests
as him (i.e. lasted as long). To quote a win percentage in RWC
terms is to ignore the fact that you start off playing in a pool
where you're expected to win three maybe four games in order to
play someone of your quality next. If you make it to the RWC
final and lose you've played 4 pool games (W), 1 QF (W), 1 SF
(W) and 1F (L). That gives you a win% of 86% but proves what?
According to Andy Robinson EJ's win% over the last two years was
55%, putting up there with Brian Ashton and Martin Johnson.
It's my belief Eddie Jones and his rigid approach to playing the
game worked initially, hence the 96% win rate in the first
couple of years (coupled presumably with a dead cat bounce).
However, it seems to me it hasn't been working more recently and
as he gets more desperate to make it work he's been trying
wierder solutions, such as players out of position. He's unable
to take criticism (hence the Danny Care treatment) that maybe he
was open to in the first few years. He relies on players who are
loyal to him and their reputations rather than risk new players
in form.
Sorry, the RFU can be blamed for pulling the trigger at this
late stage but he had to go. I'd like to see Borthwick
parachuted in for the RWC and then the RFU to decide on the new
coach, but that history of coaches I quoted earlier shows their
ability to pick the wrong man. I only say Borthwick because as
an understudy to Eddie I think he can take over without throwing
out baby with the bath water. We haven't got time to start
again, we need continuity. We need to sharpen and improve what
we have, we can't have a wholesale revolution.
#Post#: 100194--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jones knows he's going
DIR By: DOK
Date: December 7, 2022, 7:01 am
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Borthwick is the RFU's man but he wouldn't be my choice - Andy
Goode
HTML https://www.rugbypass.com/news/borthwick-is-the-rfus-man-but-he-wouldnt-be-my-choice-andy-goode/
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