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#Post#: 100112--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jones knows he's going
DIR By: Fearless Fred
Date: December 6, 2022, 3:25 am
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Robertson is currently under contract with the NZRU until 2025,
with an option for him to leave if he isn't offered the All
Blacks position after the 2023 World Cup. That last bit may be
being counted against him. It would cost the RFU a pretty penny
to buy his release from NZRU before the 2023 Cup.
#Post#: 100115--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jones knows he's going
DIR By: Yareet
Date: December 6, 2022, 3:31 am
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--- Quote from: MaidstoneQuin link ---
>
> He’s really had no time at all in a top job and is clearly an
RFU bed fellow. Already getting Lancaster vibes for how England
will be, but hopefully I am wrong.
>
--- End Quote ---
Take a failing English team, cull some dead wood, bring in a
load of youngsters (many of them Quins; including the captain)
and win 4/5 in his first 6N?
I can think of worse ideas
#Post#: 100118--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jones knows he's going
DIR By: exdublinquin
Date: December 6, 2022, 4:13 am
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Oh oh dear!
This is just unbelievably dull, pointless and really does beg
the question if those running RFU know anything.
The apprentice replacing the apparent “master”.
How is this going to improve England.
Of course there will be the “dead cat bounce”.
Performance will of course improve short term, as they did under
EJ.
But then as the similar aspects come to light again of a
pressured and dour environment, it will all get sour again.
Workaholics are a bravado from an older time. Eye for detail,
ok. Drive, ok. But someone who doesn’t understand that even if
they don’t need down time, others do, well not a proper leader.
The players in the England squad, in the main come from
expansive teams, playing a decent paced game. The England team
currently doesn’t do the sensible and play a game that suits
players, but wants to find players to play the coaches game.
Well arguably even worse force players to play an alien way.
Quins suffered because of that thinking under Gustard and he was
right out of the EJ school as is Borthwick.
Times we hear have changed. Righty of wrongly players have more
influence now. Old days of doing as told are going. Coaches
deciding they don’t want to be questioned are not the winners
now.
The Quins series of events show what you can get with an
enlightened view of engaging as a whole on what the team want to
be about.
I think England are lost for a while. Shame as the squad of
players isn’t actually that bad. They are being wasted , well
at least not best utilised . That is poor management/
leadership and a poor reflection on those in charge.
Thoughts and rant over 🥴🥴🥴
#Post#: 100119--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jones knows he's going
DIR By: Andrew Moore
Date: December 6, 2022, 4:21 am
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I'd say Borthwick is fairly unexciting as a replacement for
Jones. Most fans will be forgiven for wondering whether they'll
notice much difference in terms of playing style given his
apparent managerial style (super-formulaic, pre-planned
structures) are a chip off the old block.
One thing that might be a positive is that surely (surely
please) there won't be the level of coach turnover that there
was under Eddie. It can't help when our attack or defensive
philosophy changes every 5 mins because whoever is coaching that
aspect realises that life is better almost anywhere else.
Basically, I was hoping for either Robertson, O'Gara or Edwards.
#Post#: 100120--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jones knows he's going
DIR By: Banstead Quin
Date: December 6, 2022, 4:32 am
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Someone who wants to compete at the 6N would be a start, which
Borthwick will, forget this 'we'll be good for 5 weeks out of a
four year cycle' nonsense and start hitting tournaments
(including AIs and summer tours) as mini WCs in mentality.
Ok he may not want Smith, Dommers, Murley and may well stick
with Farrell, Ford, Manu etc but at least they'd be playing to a
structure that suits them rather than the hybrid guff we have
now.
Win, win, win! If the national team achieve that, why wouldn't
we be happy?
#Post#: 100125--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jones knows he's going
DIR By: poorfour
Date: December 6, 2022, 5:12 am
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--- Quote from: DOK link ---
>
> Parachuting Borthwick in with little experience (although some
success) seems awfully like when they did much the same with
Martin Johnson. Ideally you want a coach with proven experience
at International level, and if you can't get that with proven
experience and success at club level.
>
--- End Quote ---
That’s a tad harsh, DOK. Johnno had basically zero coaching
experience, whereas Borthwick has a decade including 7 years
working under Eddie across two RWC cycles - Japan at RWC 2015
and all of England’s 2019 cycle. That’s a heck of a coaching
education in itself.
He then went on to turn Tigers around and win the Premiership in
the space of 18 months. Tigers are struggling a bit now, but
losing Genge and Ford at the same time would disrupt any team.
(How would Quins do over a full season without Marler and Smith,
by comparison?).
In addition, the RFU seem to have been preparing for him to come
in as the long term successor anyway. Effectively this
accelerates what they were doing anyway, and hands the reins to
someone who knows the squad and the system. He was probably
party to at least some of Eddie’s plan (which I think still
holds a lot of merit), and may be able to galvanise the squad to
execute against it.
The question for me will be what sort of coaching team would
Borthwick build around himself. I think England need strong
technical coaches for scrum, lineout and defence, and someone
who can understand the attacking plan (which I still think has
lots of merit to it) but help translate it into terms that the
squad can get up to speed with faster.
#Post#: 100127--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jones knows he's going
DIR By: TeddingtonQuin
Date: December 6, 2022, 5:17 am
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EJ's departure just confirmed or R5 Live
#Post#: 100128--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jones knows he's going
DIR By: Audi Quintro
Date: December 6, 2022, 5:21 am
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Goodbye and good riddance Eddie
#Post#: 100132--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jones knows he's going
DIR By: Fearless Fred
Date: December 6, 2022, 5:36 am
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Cockerill is taking interim charge, not Borthwick.
#Post#: 100135--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jones knows he's going
DIR By: Nico Wilson
Date: December 6, 2022, 5:46 am
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Please let this be an end to prescriptive, formulaic play.
Opposing teams will work us out, and beat us.
A better option is to empower the players and push the decision
making down on to the pitch and leave talent like Marcus Smith
to run the show. It's riskier, but harder for the opposition.
It also creates a better spectacle to watch
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