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#Post#: 99686--------------------------------------------------
Re: England vs South Africa
DIR By: Quinky
Date: November 27, 2022, 10:02 am
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One last thing to add: Malcolm Marx is absolutely huge! The guy
is a real physical specimen and seeing him close up you realise
how he can appear immovable over the ball
#Post#: 99687--------------------------------------------------
Re: England vs South Africa
DIR By: SunburyQuin
Date: November 27, 2022, 10:25 am
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Is anyone watch Tigers v L. Irish ? What about Ollie
Hassell-Collins getting a shout for England ? He has been
immense so far today !
#Post#: 99688--------------------------------------------------
Re: England vs South Africa
DIR By: BedfordshireBoy
Date: November 27, 2022, 10:33 am
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Sadly I suspect that it is very unlikely that the RFU will end
the EJ tenure and even more unlikely that EJ will significantly
change his selections.
#Post#: 99689--------------------------------------------------
Re: England vs South Africa
DIR By: Grins
Date: November 27, 2022, 11:57 am
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--- Quote from: Banstead Quin link ---
>
> Ok so very clear things not moving forward with England but
going backwards. Our much vaunted pack have now been bossed by
two good scrummaging sides (Argentina, Boks), just lucky we're
not playing Georgia!!!
>
> Too many players playing on 2019 reputations and no one seems
to know what the game plan is. If its a Quins style, you need
players that fit it and that is not the case at the moment. If
its a Tigers/pre 2022 Sarries style, then don't pick the
creatives and fill the team to match the system. This is not
scientific stuff to work out.
>
> Leadership, again, when has our 'Captain' ever dragged us out
of a losing position in a game? He isn't there on merit so
shouldn't be there. Carling, Johnson, Dallaglio, Robshaw all had
games where they stood up and said if you won't do it, I will
and upped the performances of the rest. Farrell only looks great
when we're winning.
>
> So, new coach, pick a system and recruit to it. After the 6N
is too late, we need a new head coach before then. If that's
Borthwick and we can't have him till 1st June, then fine ask him
what he wants and get an interim to coach that way so at least
the players have a view on what is expected. Dont just panic and
pick who is available (and if its Gatland, I'm moving to
Scotland and disassociating with England)
>
> My starting XV for the world up is:-
>
> 15 - Steward (no other contender)
> 14 - Arundell (his pace keeps defences honest)
> 13 - Marchant (great in attack/defence and an ariel threat at
kick offs and Gary Owens)
> 12 - Slade (gives the left footed kicking option and so
creative. Plus, he's actually a centre)
> 11 - Murley (quick, strong and a great finisher)
> 10 - Smith (just pure genius when allowed to play his natural
game)
> 9 - Quirke (just love his style of play - JVP as backbup)
> 8 - Dombrandt (can play in either game plan and just sees
things other 8s don't. Not a truck it up merchant/one trick
pony)
> 7 - Curry (not a bad player, just playing in a bad side)
> 6 - Willis (good running/tackling/jackling and a 3rd LO
option)
> 5 - Coles/Ribbans/Tizard (the one position I'm not sure of but
3 good options)
> 4 - Itoje (c) (similar to Curry, just playing in a bad side
and his Sarries petulance will calm down if Captain)
> 3 - Sinckler (looks frustrated as the rest of the side
capitulates around him. Has great hands in the loose)
> 2 - George (just shades LCD for me and again will benefit from
a better side/system around him)
> 1 - Genge (feeds off of good energy and like Sinks, has good
hands in the loose
>
> Should never play for England again:-
>
> The Vunipolae
> Jonny Hill
> Manu Tuilagi
> Johnny May
> Owen Farrell - (work out what you want to be and whether your
ego will let you play for a team rather than yourself being
Billy big banana's. You are not a bad player, just haven't
learnt the lesson of the needs of the one outweighing the needs
of the many. Sort that and you could be back in, on the bench,
of course, else go and fulfill your Rugby League dream)
>
--- End Quote ---
If that is your view of Farrell, then you really don’t have much
credibility to comment with any authority on rugby. He has a
number of flaws as a rugby player, but the idea that he is
anything but a team player is totally incorrect.
#Post#: 99690--------------------------------------------------
Re: England vs South Africa
DIR By: Man From LA
Date: November 27, 2022, 12:20 pm
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When Farrell was dropped as captain for England for Lawes, was
his reaction to be a team player, put the team first and support
the new captain 100%? Eddie Jones said at the time: “It is a
difficult situation (the dynamic this decision created between
Farrell and Lawes)... they’re working it out.” Seems from that
comment that the answer is possibly not.
#Post#: 99691--------------------------------------------------
Re: England vs South Africa
DIR By: Monte
Date: November 27, 2022, 12:57 pm
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Interesting discussion on Rugby tonight with Nick Easter, Ugo,
Beno chaired by MB. Looking at Marcus/Owen’s stats for Club and
the England stats for autumn internationals and the dreadful
overall team stats for yesterday. I am no connoisseur of the
scrum but even I could see mega problem yesterday and not much
better in ruck. Ridiculous when you think of players and coaches
in England.
#Post#: 99693--------------------------------------------------
Re: England vs South Africa
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: November 27, 2022, 1:01 pm
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The Farrell/Lawes "thing" might have just been Farrell having to
adjust to not being captain; it wasn't necessarily a big issue.
I thought it was fairly common knowledge that OF is highly
respected by coaches and players. That doesn't sound like a
person who isn't a team player.
#Post#: 99694--------------------------------------------------
Re: England vs South Africa
DIR By: The Kid
Date: November 27, 2022, 1:36 pm
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Can’t seem to quote but in response to Quinky above, Yes, South
Africa were excellent. A criticism of them last year was that
they weren’t picking different guys, but they have had to due to
various reasons and it’s paid off. I think they’re a step behind
France and Ireland more generally and probably only 50-50 to get
past either of them or NZ at best. We are a step off that. pace
still. At least they know they can win with Willemse and Le
Roux, have an option behind Kolbe in Arendse, and the likes of
Roos, Libbok, and Hendrikse have been blooded to an extent. They
also know their backup kicking options if they want to take
Pollard off. England can take no such learnings into the World
Cup, other than Ribbans being useful as probably the fourth lock
behind Itoje, Hill, Lawes/Ewels.
I wrestled with the counterpoint for a bit that Farrell doesn’t
miss those two kicks most weeks, and that Etzebeth try gets
chalked off 75% of the time. That changes the conversation a
bit, but not enough. And in any case, the eye test would have
told us otherwise.
When assessing the entire autumn, there are some alarming
patterns showing. Argentina, South Africa, and for 70 mins, the
all blacks, are outplayed us and in each game we were
indisciplined. The comeback last week was good, but was against
14 men, and didn’t re-emerge against the boks as you’d hope it
may have done. We blew Japan away, but they’re a good matchup
for us and played badly on the day.
Selection isn’t going to change under Eddie and his guys will
play the RWC out. It’s just a shame that whoever follows him is
going to be left with far more work to do than there should be.
If there’s a game plan to be seen still, I suspect we will see
it in the 6N at some stage but it doesn’t augur well.
#Post#: 99696--------------------------------------------------
Re: England vs South Africa
DIR By: Quinky
Date: November 27, 2022, 4:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: The Kid link ---
>
> Can’t seem to quote but in response to Quinky above, Yes,
South Africa were excellent. A criticism of them last year was
that they weren’t picking different guys, but they have had to
due to various reasons and it’s paid off. I think they’re a step
behind France and Ireland more generally and probably only 50-50
to get past either of them or NZ at best. We are a step off
that. pace still. At least they know they can win with Willemse
and Le Roux, have an option behind Kolbe in Arendse, and the
likes of Roos, Libbok, and Hendrikse have been blooded to an
extent. They also know their backup kicking options if they want
to take Pollard off. England can take no such learnings into the
World Cup, other than Ribbans being useful as probably the
fourth lock behind Itoje, Hill, Lawes/Ewels.
>
> I wrestled with the counterpoint for a bit that Farrell
doesn’t miss those two kicks most weeks, and that Etzebeth try
gets chalked off 75% of the time. That changes the conversation
a bit, but not enough. And in any case, the eye test would have
told us otherwise.
>
> When assessing the entire autumn, there are some alarming
patterns showing. Argentina, South Africa, and for 70 mins, the
all blacks, are outplayed us and in each game we were
indisciplined. The comeback last week was good, but was against
14 men, and didn’t re-emerge against the boks as you’d hope it
may have done. We blew Japan away, but they’re a good matchup
for us and played badly on the day.
>
> Selection isn’t going to change under Eddie and his guys will
play the RWC out. It’s just a shame that whoever follows him is
going to be left with far more work to do than there should be.
If there’s a game plan to be seen still, I suspect we will see
it in the 6N at some stage but it doesn’t augur well.
>
--- End Quote ---
I think EJ had a great number of opportunities in the past 12
months to try new players, combinations, patterns etc. The fact
that this doesn't seem to be happen could mean that he's not
trying them, or he is and they're not working out, or the
players just aren't willing/able to execute.
The Boks are an interesting point. I didn't think they were
great yesterday. Hpwever I think on the basis of their play
against Ireland and France, they will get past either team -
France being the tougher of the two. I still have some concerns
about the back line, but the pack is nicely moulded and very
settled. They have a wealth of options, and can mix and match as
they see fit - plus there are guys to come back. Before the
Wales game a commentator said "We will see the two best front
rows in the world today. Sadly for Wales, they both play for the
Boks". Maybe an exaggeration, but it made me smile. The weak
area in my view is at half back. Faf is back to his best and
hopefully the injury isn't bad. Pollard can't stay injury free
and can't get his form. Jantjes is a no-no. Willemse seems
nervous. Steyn wasn't good but could step in mid-game. Ditto
Kolbe, apparently, although you just know he'd run everything.
Libbock is very talented, but unproven at that level. It will be
a gamble. Hopefully Am will be back soon as he really does add
another dimension.
England need to trust the young guys.Billy and Mako look old and
unfit; Manu is just ineffective against a decent defence, and
offers nothing more than bosh. Marchant it seems is now off the
radar, so will they stick with Slade?
The sad thing is that there is loads of English talent out
there, but it's not being used.
#Post#: 99698--------------------------------------------------
Re: England vs South Africa
DIR By: DOK
Date: November 27, 2022, 4:28 pm
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The truth is that we won one game out of four. We beat Japan.
But England always have been great flat track bullies. They
flatter to deceive. Honestly, on the basis of the AIs, can you
see them winning RWC? I'd love that to be true but honestly?
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