DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
ComeAllWithin (Harlequins Rugby)
HTML https://comeallwithin.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: ComeAllWithin Board
*****************************************************
#Post#: 99640--------------------------------------------------
Re: England vs South Africa
DIR By: DazzaS
Date: November 26, 2022, 2:10 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: championes link ---
>
> If you thought Quins were in some way disappointing last night
- you are - respectfully - an idiot,
>
> Last night we defended superbly and shut out a game when we
weren’t quite firing.
>
> Then today I paid more than 100 quid to sit in the upper tier
to watch that unmitigated guano.
>
> Utterly hopeless and embarrassing performance. We created
nothing and butchered everything;
>
> Maybe that’s the plan.
>
--- End Quote ---
How to win the hearts and minds of people would not be calling
people idiots who have different opinions to yours.
#Post#: 99641--------------------------------------------------
Re: England vs South Africa
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: November 26, 2022, 2:18 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Audi Quintro link ---
>
> Smith out for the season allegedly
>
--- End Quote ---
Why do you post like this? It's really strange.
#Post#: 99643--------------------------------------------------
Re: England vs South Africa
DIR By: Audi Quintro
Date: November 26, 2022, 2:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> Why do you post like this? It's really strange.
>
--- End Quote ---
No it isn’t. I was also correct about Collier earlier on this
season.
#Post#: 99644--------------------------------------------------
Re: England vs South Africa
DIR By: Keith Jenner
Date: November 26, 2022, 2:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Audi Quintro link ---
>
> Smith out for the season allegedly
>
--- End Quote ---
What is your source?
#Post#: 99645--------------------------------------------------
Re: England vs South Africa
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: November 26, 2022, 2:26 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Audi Quintro link ---
>
> No it isn’t. I was also correct about Collier earlier on this
season.
>
--- End Quote ---
So you're saying the guy who picked up an injury but ran it off
and was substituted without drama 10 minutes later is actually
out for the season, a fact somehow known less than 90 minutes
later?
Given that you kept telling us every match was his last for
England, and that you only post on here to needle Quins fans,
forgive me for thinking that maybe you're not on the level
#Post#: 99646--------------------------------------------------
Re: England vs South Africa
DIR By: The Kid
Date: November 26, 2022, 3:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Eerily similar to the World Cup final. Have we learned nothing?
Perhaps not as much as we thought.
Eddies going to get to the world cup but this was the boks
without several starters and that was a proper pasting.
#Post#: 99647--------------------------------------------------
Re: England vs South Africa
DIR By: Keith Jenner
Date: November 26, 2022, 3:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: The Kid link ---
>
> Eerily similar to the World Cup final. Have we learned
nothing? Perhaps not as much as we thought.
>
> Eddies going to get to the world cup but this was the boks
without several starters and that was a proper pasting.
>
--- End Quote ---
I’ve not seen anything in the last few years to suggest we have
learned anything. I’m amazed that anyone who has watched England
lately would think that we have learned anything since 2019.
#Post#: 99648--------------------------------------------------
Re: England vs South Africa
DIR By: The Kid
Date: November 26, 2022, 3:51 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I should have elaborated more. I want to give England more
credit for trying to work with the internationally experienced
players they have and bright young things like Marcus and JVP
but I genuinely can’t find reasons to do it anymore.
England under Eddie have always been about control and power.
This only works when you’re disciplined and this team isn’t.
Hill, the Vunipolae and even of late Curry are too indisciplined
too often. You can’t win rugby games and play on the edge like
that. Without sounding too Gen Z, the vibes are off with this
team. Applauding opposition penalties as voraciously as Maro
does looks stupid when you’re being pushed about. The talk isn’t
matching the walk.
The way to beat this SA team (like we did last year) is play
with tempo and use strike moves to manipulate their defence’s
tendencies to shoot wingers out of the line and work out to in.
We didn’t do anything like that at any point. Instead, we tried
the same double pivot flexible formation thing we’ve been
mucking about with for ages which allowed their D to key in on
whoever the second pivot was. It was going badly when smith was
on (didn’t have a great game but we all know he’s being asked to
do something different to how he’s best used) and it
disintegrated completely when he left the field. Game over.
The other things the boks do not like is tempo. We didn’t impose
ourselves or our tempo on the game. There’s nothing that bok
team loves more than a slow gritty imprecise game where
everything takes ages; multiple scrum resets, slow game with
lots of interruptions, constant water breaks. They’re really
good at the borderline underhand stuff and we just kinda let
them do it.
If you’re going to match them there, You need quite power for
that and We were out powered (and fair play to the boks here -
that pack is excellent) but in backing ourselves here, also
played straight into their hands. They probably couldn’t believe
quite how simple it was.
There are no solutions this side of the World Cup for England.
The team we see now with the likes of Ford and Ewels back in it
is what we will see at the RWC. There are exciting players in
the premiership and a decent enough pack to work with that is
still young and will be better (Genge, Stuart, Maro, Curry is
your core but the Willis’ and Dombrandts need to be in the side)
but that power element is always going to be second best to that
bok side.
The philosophy needs to fundamentally change and that starts
with a new coaching setup that encourages heads up rugby, builds
on the decent defensive identity the team has and the power that
pack can generate, but brings in some of the electricity on the
outside that the premiership is bursting with. A kiwi coach
would make a lot of sense and bring out the best in the young
backs in the league like JVP, Marcus, Arundell, Murley, and
Steward and some of the younger dynamic forwards. There’s no
reason why this England generation emerging can’t do what France
have done. It’s the direction, or lack of an apposite one,
holding them back
#Post#: 99649--------------------------------------------------
Re: England vs South Africa
DIR By: Keith Jenner
Date: November 26, 2022, 4:41 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: The Kid link ---
>
> I should have elaborated more. I want to give England more
credit for trying to work with the internationally experienced
players they have and bright young things like Marcus and JVP
but I genuinely can’t find reasons to do it anymore.
>
> England under Eddie have always been about control and power.
This only works when you’re disciplined and this team isn’t.
Hill, the Vunipolae and even of late Curry are too indisciplined
too often. You can’t win rugby games and play on the edge like
that. Without sounding too Gen Z, the vibes are off with this
team. Applauding opposition penalties as voraciously as Maro
does looks stupid when you’re being pushed about. The talk isn’t
matching the walk.
>
> The way to beat this SA team (like we did last year) is play
with tempo and use strike moves to manipulate their defence’s
tendencies to shoot wingers out of the line and work out to in.
We didn’t do anything like that at any point. Instead, we tried
the same double pivot flexible formation thing we’ve been
mucking about with for ages which allowed their D to key in on
whoever the second pivot was. It was going badly when smith was
on (didn’t have a great game but we all know he’s being asked to
do something different to how he’s best used) and it
disintegrated completely when he left the field. Game over.
>
> The other things the boks do not like is tempo. We didn’t
impose ourselves or our tempo on the game. There’s nothing that
bok team loves more than a slow gritty imprecise game where
everything takes ages; multiple scrum resets, slow game with
lots of interruptions, constant water breaks. They’re really
good at the borderline underhand stuff and we just kinda let
them do it.
>
> If you’re going to match them there, You need quite power for
that and We were out powered (and fair play to the boks here -
that pack is excellent) but in backing ourselves here, also
played straight into their hands. They probably couldn’t believe
quite how simple it was.
>
> There are no solutions this side of the World Cup for England.
The team we see now with the likes of Ford and Ewels back in it
is what we will see at the RWC. There are exciting players in
the premiership and a decent enough pack to work with that is
still young and will be better (Genge, Stuart, Maro, Curry is
your core but the Willis’ and Dombrandts need to be in the side)
but that power element is always going to be second best to that
bok side.
>
> The philosophy needs to fundamentally change and that starts
with a new coaching setup that encourages heads up rugby, builds
on the decent defensive identity the team has and the power that
pack can generate, but brings in some of the electricity on the
outside that the premiership is bursting with. A kiwi coach
would make a lot of sense and bring out the best in the young
backs in the league like JVP, Marcus, Arundell, Murley, and
Steward and some of the younger dynamic forwards. There’s no
reason why this England generation emerging can’t do what France
have done. It’s the direction, or lack of an apposite one,
holding them back
>
--- End Quote ---
Yep, that sounds like a fairly good summary.
#Post#: 99650--------------------------------------------------
Re: England vs South Africa
DIR By: DDtheD
Date: November 26, 2022, 5:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
"We are building nicely. Sometimes it's hard for people to see
that but we definitely believe in that." (Tuilagi)
Perhaps it’s actually that they’re not building nicely and it’s
hard for those in the bubble to see that.
*****************************************************
Page 3 of 7
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page