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#Post#: 99154--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pieter-Steph du Toit's red card
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: November 16, 2022, 2:37 am
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Middleton's comments were a mess.
#Post#: 99155--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pieter-Steph du Toit's red card
DIR By: Quinky
Date: November 16, 2022, 3:15 am
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--- Quote from: D-Quins link ---
>
> The law applied is not about intent, it deals with fact,
contact with the head with force etc. The disciplinary tribunal
will consider intent. Even with his previous good conduct (never
had a card in international rugby) I expect a higher end ban
will be applied as the outcome was bad.
>
--- End Quote ---
I think intent will definitely be considered. It's not full
mitigation, but the push was a major contributing factor.
I hope he doesn't get a long ban. He's a superb player with an
exemplary record. Although he still doesn't seem to be the
player he was before his injury layoff after the dump tackle by
Van Der Merwe, which wasn't even carded 🤷
#Post#: 99157--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pieter-Steph du Toit's red card
DIR By: Fursty
Date: November 16, 2022, 3:25 am
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--- Quote from: TomBuckQuin link ---
>
> It should be the player who pushed PSDT that gets cited for
that incident - and there's precedent. Last season one of our
players (I think Dommers) got penalised for pushing (I think)
Marler, who was carrying the ball, into a defender resulting in
a high tackle on Marler.
>
> Obviously this situation is much higher danger - but PSDT had
literally no control of his body because one of his teammates
shoved him at the ruck. There's a clearer angle than the one
above doing the rounds somewhere...
>
--- End Quote ---
There's a huge difference between the 2 incident, the one with
Marler the ref said that main issue was that the push from
Dommers accelerated the impact and so the tackler couldn't
adjust in time (I seem to remember that it looked like it was
going to be a high shot either way) - then having stopped play I
think the ref felt he needed to give a Pen and so penalised us.
The PSDT incident at the weekend was entirely different -
there's a push from behind but that's no where near forceful
enough to make him fly into the ruck (look at the leg drive) -
the push might have made things worse but the fact is that if
PSDT hadn't intestinally gone off his feet as he goes into the
ruck it wouldn't have happened.
#Post#: 99165--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pieter-Steph du Toit's red card
DIR By: TomBuckQuin
Date: November 16, 2022, 5:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Fursty link ---
>
> The PSDT incident at the weekend was entirely different -
there's a push from behind but that's no where near forceful
enough to make him fly into the ruck (look at the leg drive) -
the push might have made things worse but the fact is that if
PSDT hadn't intestinally gone off his feet as he goes into the
ruck it wouldn't have happened.
>
--- End Quote ---
So you're saying if someone shoved you in the back you'd be able
to consciously stop your feet working to try to keep up with
your forward momentum and you'd instead faceplant directly into
the floor? PSDT was already moving towards the ruck (in a
controlled fashion), then got shoved - after that, his legs are
auto-responding but he's out of control - that's entirely
because of the shove from, I think, Kwagga Smith.
#Post#: 99168--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pieter-Steph du Toit's red card
DIR By: Yareet
Date: November 16, 2022, 6:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Fursty link ---
>
> There's a huge difference between the 2 incident, the one with
Marler the ref said that main issue was that the push from
Dommers accelerated the impact and so the tackler couldn't
adjust in time (I seem to remember that it looked like it was
going to be a high shot either way) - then having stopped play I
think the ref felt he needed to give a Pen and so penalised us.
>
> The PSDT incident at the weekend was entirely different -
there's a push from behind but that's no where near forceful
enough to make him fly into the ruck (look at the leg drive) -
the push might have made things worse but the fact is that if
PSDT hadn't intestinally gone off his feet as he goes into the
ruck it wouldn't have happened.
>
--- End Quote ---
Posting that took guts
#Post#: 99169--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pieter-Steph du Toit's red card
DIR By: Fursty
Date: November 16, 2022, 6:37 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> Posting that took guts
>
--- End Quote ---
:) - not the best use of auto-correct.
#Post#: 99214--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pieter-Steph du Toit's red card
DIR By: Grins
Date: November 17, 2022, 12:15 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: TomBuckQuin link ---
>
> So you're saying if someone shoved you in the back you'd be
able to consciously stop your feet working to try to keep up
with your forward momentum and you'd instead faceplant directly
into the floor? PSDT was already moving towards the ruck (in a
controlled fashion), then got shoved - after that, his legs are
auto-responding but he's out of control - that's entirely
because of the shove from, I think, Kwagga Smith.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes - I would say that PSDT could have done a number of
different things even after a minor shove. The facts are he
entered a ruck dangerously and out of control and fractured a
guy’s eye socket. He deserves to get sent off.
#Post#: 99216--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pieter-Steph du Toit's red card
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: November 17, 2022, 12:29 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: D-Quins link ---
>
> The law applied is not about intent, it deals with fact,
contact with the head with force etc. The disciplinary tribunal
will consider intent. Even with his previous good conduct (never
had a card in international rugby) I expect a higher end ban
will be applied as the outcome was bad.
>
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> There is some talk that PSDT was actually pushed as he went
into the ruck. Nasty injury, but I wouldn't say there was
malicious intent. Dupont's red card was also pretty horrific,
but again no malicious intent.
>
> Superb game. SA showed great spirit to lead having played most
of the game with 14. The French "try" at the end was extremely
contentious. Barnes' officiating was a little one-sided too.
French defence was superb.
>
> I thought this was akin to a dress rehearsal for the next RWC
final. I'd bet on SA to win next time, but the French really are
on fire at the moment.
>
--- End Quote ---
He wasn't pushed. There's a hand on his back. It's a year ban.
#Post#: 99217--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pieter-Steph du Toit's red card
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: November 17, 2022, 12:30 pm
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He was
--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> I think intent will definitely be considered. It's not full
mitigation, but the push was a major contributing factor.
> I hope he doesn't get a long ban. He's a superb player with an
exemplary record. Although he still doesn't seem to be the
player he was before his injury layoff after the dump tackle by
Van Der Merwe, which wasn't even carded 🤷
>
--- End Quote ---
It was a trivial push. Watch it again.
#Post#: 99218--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pieter-Steph du Toit's red card
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: November 17, 2022, 12:34 pm
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HTML https://youtu.be/aWUrght993Q
More angles
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