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#Post#: 97582--------------------------------------------------
The RFU cannot afford central contracts
DIR By: DOK
Date: October 19, 2022, 5:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
they are deemed unaffordable and impractical at Twickenham
HTML https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-11329369/The-RFU-introduce-central-contracts-England-players-deemed-unaffordable.html
#Post#: 97583--------------------------------------------------
Re: The RFU cannot afford central contracts
DIR By: Monte
Date: October 19, 2022, 5:51 am
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£132 a seat for NZ is unaffordable. Player contracts have to be
affordable or you don’t have a team.
#Post#: 97584--------------------------------------------------
Re: The RFU cannot afford central contracts
DIR By: Fursty
Date: October 19, 2022, 6:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Central contracts are a terrible idea - just look at ultimate
fighting championship pro 14 (or whatever they’re actually
called these days) - meaningless league where the clubs struggle
to attract decent crowds.
#Post#: 97588--------------------------------------------------
Re: The RFU cannot afford central contracts
DIR By: Nemoquin
Date: October 19, 2022, 7:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Under the New Zealand model, players have two contracts, one
with their club and one with the ABs. The idea that the central
contracts mean that the RFU would have to pay Farrell the full
£800,000 makes no sense.
#Post#: 97590--------------------------------------------------
Re: The RFU cannot afford central contracts
DIR By: DOK
Date: October 19, 2022, 8:21 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Central contracts are no silver bullet for English rugby
HTML https://archive.ph/rZLtV
#Post#: 97591--------------------------------------------------
Re: The RFU cannot afford central contracts
DIR By: Monte
Date: October 19, 2022, 8:42 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DOK link ---
>
> Central contracts are no silver bullet for English rugby
HTML https://archive.ph/rZLtV
>
--- End Quote ---
I agree but I don’t think we can continue the way we are. For
those who have watched Clubs over last 20 years it maybe
acceptable to not have international players around but I think
you will find as we move into 2023 Quins spectator numbers will
drop if MS,AD and maybe JM, CM and Danny not around for over
half of the season. This new generation will not accept it.
#Post#: 97592--------------------------------------------------
Re: The RFU cannot afford central contracts
DIR By: never sleep
Date: October 19, 2022, 8:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I still think that the underlying issue with English rugby is
the Heineken Cup.
Teams need to have big squads to cope with the extra 4/6/8 or
more games per season (depending on the competition format and
whether you get through to the knockouts).
Teams need to spend big to put you in a position to get to the
knockouts.
If you fail to make the main cup and end up in the challenge cup
then you lose TV income and crowd revenue (i.e. tickets are
cheaper/fewer away fans).
Many teams can spend a lot of effort to try to win whereas in
reality, there are only a few teams that realistically win on a
regular basis.
The competition is essentially unfair. You have English clubs
with modest salary caps playing against Irish Provinces and some
bigger spending Top 14 clubs. Irish provinces have the luxury of
resting players for normal league games - so, they can often put
out their strongest teams for a cup game whereas English teams
may be playing with their walking wounded.
The sheer number of games doesn't do the players any favours. A
good English player (e.g. Marcus Smith) will be expected to play
in most Prem games+Heineken Cup games+England Games.
Also, if you think of a team like Gloucester (this is not meant
as an offense to them), I can't really see a future where they
would win the Heineken Cup.
So, for English teams to be in with a shout to challenge for the
Heineken Cup, then you need to:
1. increase spending cap
2, wrap players in cotton wool for Premiership games.
The only way that you could really do this is to separate the
Premiership from the Heineken Cup. An option is to make the
English Heineken Cup teams franchised.
Some star players (e.g. Marcus Smith) may then end up playing
for just England and the Heineken Cup franchise.
However, it is possible that the franchise may make the players
available to the club teams for a few games a year - so that
they don't get rusty.
Taking these players out of the Premiership clubs will reduce
the wage bills for the clubs.
The Franchises could be regionally based. E.g. The London
Franchise could play games at all 3 London stadiums. This would
give the clubs the opportunity to earn revenue
Going back to the Gloucester example. Merging the best players
from Gloucester, Bath, Bristol and Chiefs would make a team that
could challenge for the title every year. Ditto
Quins+LI+Sarries.
The Premiership teams would have fewer games and therefore,
there would be fewer injuries and the squad sizes could reduce.
Premiership teams could be encouraged to partner with another
team (e.g. us and L.Scottish) to have a bigger pool of players
in case of injuries etc.
#Post#: 97593--------------------------------------------------
Re: The RFU cannot afford central contracts
DIR By: Lawyerquin
Date: October 19, 2022, 9:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I can't see central contracts working. Not quite on topic but
can I just post as an exasperated old (nearly three score years
and ten) fan. What bugs me are two issues:
1. The fact that I cannot see the top players from Quins playing
for Quins, if they are current internationals, during the autumn
period and the six Nations because club rugby continues
regardless. Back in the day the autumn was exciting because a
touring Southern Hemisphere team would come over (a bit like the
Lions in reverse) and play club and county sides before playing
each of the home nations-so England would only require players
for a couple of weeks for one game. Now it is just
internationals which is a shame-plus the fact that England seem
to need to play three matches one after the other. So the more
successful Quins are and the more players required for
international duty the more the club suffers in the Premiership
(actually not too bad this autumn for us in terms of numbers but
it has been worse before) and the fans suffer. I want to see
Smith and Murley if fit in every Quins game.And of course what
used to be the five Nations became six adding to the time
players were unavailable during that period.Now I appreciate
money talks and internationals make money-but that takes us back
to the heart of the problem which is that there isn't really
enough money in rugby to sustain what we have and creating more
and more internationals is not the way forward.
2. The amount of injuries now as opposed to the past. Looking at
my old programmes from the 1960s and the size of players (I know
this is an old chestnut but it is true) the game used to be for
all sizes-it isn't now. And because they are bigger and the
hits/tackles/rucks tougher injuries happen all the time. So
winning the Premiership means a huge element of fitness luck.
Look at Quins now-we are possibly going to be minus Smith and
Murley to England and currently injured Lynagh, Green,
Northmore, Walker, Collier, Lewies, Lawday, Chisolm and
Dombrandt (plus some of the lesser squad players like Beard,
Morris, Steele etc.) as we approach the autumn. That is 11 from
arguably our best 15. How can we possibly expect to compete?
Sadly I don't have any solutions-less games may deal with the
first point but won't help the second unless we see some rule
changes-but if we want to grow the game and attract new fans we
need to do something. Watching rugby is no longer a cheap
afternoon out and people will expect to get value for their
money. And that means seeing the best players fit and available.
#Post#: 97596--------------------------------------------------
Re: The RFU cannot afford central contracts
DIR By: Yareet
Date: October 19, 2022, 10:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: never sleep link ---
>
> I still think that the underlying issue with English rugby is
the Heineken Cup.
>
> Teams need to have big squads to cope with the extra 4/6/8 or
more games per season (depending on the competition format and
whether you get through to the knockouts).
> Teams need to spend big to put you in a position to get to the
knockouts.
> If you fail to make the main cup and end up in the challenge
cup then you lose TV income and crowd revenue (i.e. tickets are
cheaper/fewer away fans).
> Many teams can spend a lot of effort to try to win whereas in
reality, there are only a few teams that realistically win on a
regular basis.
> The competition is essentially unfair. You have English clubs
with modest salary caps playing against Irish Provinces and some
bigger spending Top 14 clubs. Irish provinces have the luxury of
resting players for normal league games - so, they can often put
out their strongest teams for a cup game whereas English teams
may be playing with their walking wounded.
> The sheer number of games doesn't do the players any favours.
A good English player (e.g. Marcus Smith) will be expected to
play in most Prem games+Heineken Cup games+England Games.
>
> Also, if you think of a team like Gloucester (this is not
meant as an offense to them), I can't really see a future where
they would win the Heineken Cup.
>
>
> So, for English teams to be in with a shout to challenge for
the Heineken Cup, then you need to:
> 1. increase spending cap
> 2, wrap players in cotton wool for Premiership games.
>
> The only way that you could really do this is to separate the
Premiership from the Heineken Cup. An option is to make the
English Heineken Cup teams franchised.
> Some star players (e.g. Marcus Smith) may then end up playing
for just England and the Heineken Cup franchise.
> However, it is possible that the franchise may make the
players available to the club teams for a few games a year - so
that they don't get rusty.
>
> Taking these players out of the Premiership clubs will reduce
the wage bills for the clubs.
>
> The Franchises could be regionally based. E.g. The London
Franchise could play games at all 3 London stadiums. This would
give the clubs the opportunity to earn revenue
>
> Going back to the Gloucester example. Merging the best players
from Gloucester, Bath, Bristol and Chiefs would make a team that
could challenge for the title every year. Ditto
Quins+LI+Sarries.
>
> The Premiership teams would have fewer games and therefore,
there would be fewer injuries and the squad sizes could reduce.
Premiership teams could be encouraged to partner with another
team (e.g. us and L.Scottish) to have a bigger pool of players
in case of injuries etc.
>
--- End Quote ---
Couple of issues with your franchises model. It may work for the
London team you describe where the clubs are all within 10 miles
of each other. However, the SW team you mentioned means a 200+
mile round trip for Exeter fans to get to “home” games in
Gloucester.
Secondly, fewer English teams would mean a smaller comp so we go
back to the revenue-generation question.
#Post#: 97597--------------------------------------------------
Re: The RFU cannot afford central contracts
DIR By: never sleep
Date: October 19, 2022, 11:06 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Maybe. But let's take Sale. Imagine that someone started a
northern franchise for the HC. They could have one game at Sale.
One at Newcastle and one somewhere else. Maybe Leeds.
Maybe the Sale fans would only go to Sale. But, there would be a
real opportunity to open the game up to areas of Yorkshire.
I guess it just depends on the location and areas of the
franchisees
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