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#Post#: 97175--------------------------------------------------
Re: What Next?
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: October 14, 2022, 2:30 am
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The thought occurs that back in the day it was unusual,
certainly at Amateur level, to change the Club that you played
for/supported unless you moved a very long way away and even
then it was frowned on. I think the current discussion is
tapping in to that probably now old fashioned way of thinking
but it was players being paid that started the change. Once a
Quin, always a Quin. Unless they become known as London
Harlequin Knight Riders......
#Post#: 97180--------------------------------------------------
Re: What Next?
DIR By: Surbiton Quin
Date: October 14, 2022, 3:17 am
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[
I’d argue that .... profile of players is probably greater than
it ever has been.
[/quote]
Obviously not around when Will Carling was annoying the Scots
and good "friends" with the Princess of Wales.
#Post#: 97186--------------------------------------------------
Re: What Next?
DIR By: Quinston Churchill
Date: October 14, 2022, 5:09 am
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I was actually … There have been a few publicly well-known
players over the years, Carling, Wilkinson, Cipriani and to a
lesser extent, Johnson. A couple of those more for off-field
rather than on-field exploits.
My point is that it’s different with players being more active
on public platforms these days.
#Post#: 97218--------------------------------------------------
Re: What Next?
DIR By: Which Tyler
Date: October 14, 2022, 10:58 am
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About 13 years ago, some idiot suggested this for the Prem&Champ
(and that wasn't the first posting, just the oldest I can
actually find):
HTML https://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read/s105.htm?108,10230583,10232938#msg-10232938
Of course, I've evolved the idea since then, here's my current
thinking:
IMO what we need is better player welfare (fewer matches/minutes
per player) alongside increased interest levels (higher
quality/intensity matches, larger geographic spread, greater
diversity of opponents…), and re-arranging the season without
shrinking it too much… Which is a bit like trying to square a
circle.
IMO, decrease the Prem to 10 teams, 5 in each level of European
rugby.
Shrink the champ to 10 (IMO: we can sustain about 20 fully pro
clubs, even if they need some charity initially).
Increase promo/relegation with the Championship to 1 automatic
and another play off.
Ring-fence the top two leagues (with specific criteria to eject
under-performers or include ambitious semi-pro.s).
MSCs for both leagues, but looser than currently, predominantly
administrative, and basic stadium features (any mention of
capacity should be set very low; circa 2-3K; maybe include plans
for increases to 10K over a sensible time period).
Same salary cap for both leagues (but without the expectation of
paying up to it for the lower level Championship teams). Salary
cap should be based on financial viability, not owner’s ego.
TV deal is for both leagues as one deal (ideally 2 Prem and 1
Champ match per weekend, but I’m not averse to more).
RFU academies for all.
Ideally (and this is probably a non-starter) I’d ditch the SF
aspect of the Premiership finals (removing international clashes
should help with this) and put the top 2 from the league
straight into the final. Leagues points difference is translated
into score board points at kick-off. Promotion/Relegation match
can be played as the curtain raiser.
Create a proper domestic cup competition between the 2 leagues.
(I’m unsure if 5 pools of 4, or 6 pools of 4 with 4 invitational
teams [ND1? military? England Students? Eng U20? Wales? South
Africa ;)] is the better option).
Knock-out stages to include Cup, Plate and Shield competitions
so that everyone gets some knock-out experiences every year.
Players are only available for the cup if they played less than
x minutes (1800?) in the previous season (may allow a higher
number for the Championship teams [who won’t be playing EPRC
fixtures]).
If the cup “just” has the 20 teams, then Cup and Plate go from
pools to Quarter Finals, whilst the shield goes straight into
semi-finals. If inviting 4 outside teams, then all 3 can have a
QF stage.
This gives us 6 pool + 3 KO weekends to fit into the 10 week
international window. We've bought that by reducing the league
by 4 weekends and helped player welfare with that game-time
limit for the domestic cup - I'd also have a maximum number of
minutes for every player anyway.
In terms of home matches, clubs go from 11+2 (Prem), 3+2 (EPRC)
and… 0 now that the AWC has become a mid-week squad filler, to 9
(Prem), 3+2 (EPRC) and 3+2 (DomCup) so actually increase the
number of home gates per season (now that the AWC has died).
Everyone is also guaranteed at least one knock-out match each
year, even if they’re not guaranteed a home ground for it (might
there be room to play DomCup QFs home and away?).
In terms of variety, Prem clubs go from facing 11 English
opponents + 2-3 European to 9 English opponents + 2-3 European +
an extra 2 English from a less usual pool of opponents.
Dropping 3 teams from the Premiership increases the quality
there, and allows the season to be completed without clashes
with international weekends.
Dropping 5 teams from the bottom, and replacing them with 3 big
names from the Prem massively increases the quality of the
Championship.
The Domestic Cup allows for a greater variety of opponents for
the Premiership teams, and a requirement to use the back-up
players. The Domestic Cup allows the Championship teams a chance
at giant slaying the Prem clubs, and to measure themselves
against the bigger boys, which really ought to generate interest
from fans and sponsors alike.
Combine that extra interest with a proper TV deal (exposure +
money) then that should grow the Championship significantly.
Increasing movement between the 2 levels, and greater cross-over
matches between the 2 levels, should reduce the bounce-back
aspect of promotion and relegation, whilst that and the extra
funding for the Champ clubs (and the ring-fencing there) should
reduce the existential fear of relegation for the Prem clubs.
For the champ teams, without European rugby, you could argue
that they'd be lacking match numbers, despite the higher quality
and TV deal. You could also argue that this is better for player
welfare, allows them to rest ahead of their giant-slaying
opportunities, and allow for smaller squads (and thus, smaller
playing budgets at that level).
If there aren’t 7 Championship clubs willing to take on full
professionalism with all those boosts, then I’d look for the RFU
getting involved and "assisting" 1-3 clubs in unrepresented
areas, say Carlisle, Blackburn or Canterbury.
In terms of financing, the Premiership’s BT deal, signed during
Covid, is supposed to be in the region of £37M p.a.
HTML https://www.rugbypass.com/news/massive-win-for-bt-sport-as-they-secure-premiership-live-tv-rights-through-to-2024/
The current title sponsorship deal for the Premiership is
supposed to be in the regions of £10M p.a.
HTML https://www.rugbypass.com/news/exclusive-per-season-figure-premierships-multi-million-pound-sponsorship-deal-revealed/
The current RFU/PRL deal for EPS release etc etc is supposed to
be in the region of £27.5M p.a.
HTML https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/features/featured-post/25644/exclusive-rfu-agree-220m-deal-for-their-premiership-clubs/<br
/>
FTR, current funding for the Championship is in the region of
£3.5M p.a.
HTML https://www.rugbyworld.com/tournaments/the-championship/rfu-cuts-championship-funding-107675
I would argue that my suggested set-up would see increases to
all of those, and possibly a title sponsor found for the
Domestic Cup (and remember, that BT deal was shrunk from the
previous deal, due to pandemic uncertainties and problems)
Currently, those payments are smoothed over 13 clubs, for £5.7M
each (or in the Champ, 12 clubs, for £0.288M each)
If spread evenly over 20 clubs, it would be £3.9M each
If split 3:2 it’s be £4.7 (Prem) & £3.1M (Champ)
If split 2:1 it’d be £5.2M (Prem) & £2.6M (Champ)
IF interest was increased by 20% from current levels, you could
split those monies 3:2 and the Prem clubs wouldn’t lose a penny,
whilst the Champ clubs would see a 13 fold increase. I would
also expect increased interest to increase ticket sales, shirt
sales, and the value of club sponsorship agreements – especially
in the Championship.
#Post#: 97222--------------------------------------------------
Re: What Next?
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: October 14, 2022, 12:22 pm
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I wonder if anyone read all of that the first time. 🙂
#Post#: 97226--------------------------------------------------
Re: What Next?
DIR By: Camquin
Date: October 14, 2022, 1:47 pm
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Tyler seems to have a bigger fag packet than the PRL/RFU who do
seem to be making it up as they go along, and I doubt they have
got that far.
#Post#: 97237--------------------------------------------------
Re: What Next?
DIR By: PinguthePenQuin
Date: October 15, 2022, 7:32 am
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The idea of a 10 team Prem and a fully proffessional 10 team
Champ is beginning to gather traction. Unsurprising really when
you look at the quality of rugby currently going on in the
Championship. Teams like Jersey and Ealing would easily give
Bath or Newcastle a decent run for their money. Add to that the
performances recently of Bedford, Doncaster (just played their
way out of a poor run), Nottingham and Coventry. Pirates are
always strong at home too.
Throw a bit of TV revenue towards the Championship clubs and see
the game grow.
There will always be some clubs that lead the way (Sarries,
Tigers, Sale, Exeter and Quins currently stand out and Saints
are in that group too), but a fully professional Championship
with promotion and relegation is really a no brainer.
Add in a cross league cup competition to aid player development
and you have the makings of a decent club foundation in England.
The recent campaign to allow Wasps and Worcester to keep their P
shares is a real slap in the face for Championship clubs when
they are expected to pay their way into that group. That's not
to put a slight on Wasps or Wuss, but Ealing have deserved a
place in the Premiership for a long while and Jersey are now
firmly in that bracket too.
#Post#: 97244--------------------------------------------------
Re: What Next?
DIR By: Camquin
Date: October 15, 2022, 1:10 pm
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I think the Championship players might cope, but a National 1
side with a 50% record might really struggle. Leeds are behind
Sale FC.
Also, where is Coventry? And my shilling says the only rugby in
Worcester will be in Regional 1 and Wasps will be in Counties 2.
There is something to be said for putting the European Cup into
a single block at the end of the season. Especially if you try
to make a smaller Championship professional, as you could have a
third European tier playing on Wednesdays and Thursdays - thus
getting TV time, if not live audiences, without having to have
short turnaround between matches - though they would need a week
off immediately before the move.
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