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#Post#: 97153--------------------------------------------------
Re: What Next?
DIR By: Harleys Evil Step Mum
Date: October 13, 2022, 9:22 am
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Certainly made me delay my #COYQ tattoo!!!!!!
#Post#: 97154--------------------------------------------------
Re: What Next?
DIR By: A222Quin
Date: October 13, 2022, 9:29 am
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--- Quote from: ecrowe link ---
>
> I know it may fit into one of the suggested options but what
about a NFL style league? The league would be ringfenced with
the uptake of some championship teams.
>
> North - Newcastle, Sale, Nottingham, Doncaster, Leeds, Caldy
>
> Midlands - Leicester, Northampton, Wasps, Worcester, Bedford
>
> London - Quins, Irish, Sarries, Ealing, Richmond, London
Scottish
>
> West Country - Bath, Gloucester, Bristol, Jersey, Cornish
Pirates
>
> Each team plays the teams in their league home and away and
then play ONE team from the other leagues - totalling 12 games
over the season. Top two of each league go to a knock out match
all ending with a final.
>
> Fans still get to see a mixture of opposition teams at home
and get to travel to away games across the England.
>
--- End Quote ---
Assume Exeter go into the West Country group?
Nice idea but the mismatches would be pretty horrendous. Would
you want to be a championship player having Andre or Billy
Vunipola flying at you at full tilt?
#Post#: 97155--------------------------------------------------
Re: What Next?
DIR By: never sleep
Date: October 13, 2022, 9:32 am
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I wonder whether the answer is to split the Prem league from the
Euro cup.
Basically have a Prem league that culminates in a final.
Then have a small number of franchised teams who compete in the
European cup.
Advantages of this - it would reduce the salary bills for the
league clubs and Clubs could reduce their squad sizes.
The franchised super clubs would be good at competing against
the Irish Provinces and some of the richer Top 14 clubs.
Basically, it would be a bit like southern hemisphere rugby
where the Super Rugby franchises are separate from the
provincial/club sides.
[edited]
Some players (e.g. Maro Itoje) could play for England and London
Raiders and occasionally be loaned to Sarries. This would reduce
player burnout and would help Sarries to lower their wage bill.
#Post#: 97156--------------------------------------------------
Re: What Next?
DIR By: The Kid
Date: October 13, 2022, 10:09 am
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If there is going to be a franchise model (and I think this is
where it is going), then if it’s going to work, it needs to look
like the following:
Most Importantly, by far,they 100% need use the clubs they have,
and that’s 10-11 existing, established clubs with 100+ years of
history in most cases, rather than lighting that on fire. If
they don’t, they will lose the room, and the whole game risks
going bang.
No games on international weekends. Bye week remains if there
are 11 viable teams.
Franchises must be essentially permanent; the bottom cannot be
allowed to fall out. Those on the outside need to present a
viable, credible operation backed by success on the pitch to be
able to get an “expansion”. If Wasps and Worcester are reborn
and in 5-10 years time, viable, then expansion needs to be
discussed and unanimously agreed.
Central administration of the league needs to be a lot stronger,
whilst allowing clubs to shape their own direction re. Squads,
talent pipeline etc. There can be no “draft” as academies are
too strong and a point of difference. Prem Rugby needs to work
hand in glove with the RFU and perhaps central fund the 5
million cap, with clubs paying back in revenue like a
“subscription” to their franchise status. I have no idea how the
business arrangement would work here, but linking England Player
availability to their clubs is paramount or the fans will not
come.
Salary cap must remain low so that clubs are viable, perhaps
relating to a “size capped” squad. NFL teams carry 52 and a
practice squad of 16. A senior squad of 32, with 9 front rowers
minimum, would make sense. England players would have to be
available every weekend for this to be viable (the NFL model
doesn’t have this issue and English Rugby needs to eliminate
it).
Squads could then carry an academy (100% homegrown) squad of
12-16 players who are dual registered in the champ and play when
not required (at least 3 front rowers). This is essentially the
arrangement Quins have with Scottish now. Franchises could then
also offer partnerships with universities, with players
registered for degrees and playing BUCs? This would sit above
the U18s but below the first team.
Scrap the prem cup. The dual registered players get game time
with the partner teams and/or in relief of the main squad of 30
due to injury (perhaps limited call ups to 5 per player per
season).
Teams are involved in Europe as normal. Extend the season if you
have to. But no midweek rugby.
#Post#: 97157--------------------------------------------------
Re: What Next?
DIR By: Surbiton Quin
Date: October 13, 2022, 10:10 am
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--- Quote from: Banstead Quin link ---
>
> the money guys know that ultimately, we will just want to
watch Rugby and will swallow whatever they come up with.
>
--- End Quote ---
I don't think history shows this to be correct, which is why I
mentioned the Welsh franchises the attendance is very poor the
average for URC season 21/22 was 6,400 and context around
Dragons - one of the better known teams -
"The Dragons rugby team share their home at Rodney Parade with
Newport County AFC. While the Dragons play in a top flight
international league, Newport County are in the fourth level of
English football’s system.
There shouldn’t be any competition as far as their support goes,
after all, Wales is rugby mad and there’s a massive local
population. That doesn’t even go into the issue of supply - the
Dragons only had nine home games last year compared to the
seemingly over-abundant offer of 25 County home games.
But the Dragons average attendance of 5,111 is barely more than
County’s season average of 4,333." Source the National - Welsh
website/paper
Super Rugby in Aus averages about 9,500 a match and this is
where there are big state rivalries which map to the teams, take
out the final and semis and the average drops off, in fact take
out Brisbane/ Queensland Reds and it is quite low.
The SA clubs only moved North for the hope of cash and NZ
pulling out of super rugby was also done for money reasons. The
bigger shinier thing that is pushed by consultants doesn't tend
to last.
Leinster doesn't bother with Thomond Park for a lot of their URC
matches.
Rugby League moved to summer to boost TV and match day
attendances, how did that one work out?
I am more likely to go and watch Esher than follow a combined
London side, so yes in a way you are correct I will probably
still watch rugby but not the "super product".
#Post#: 97165--------------------------------------------------
Re: What Next?
DIR By: ecrowe
Date: October 13, 2022, 11:20 am
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--- Quote from: A222Quin link ---
>
> Assume Exeter go into the West Country group?
>
> Nice idea but the mismatches would be pretty horrendous. Would
you want to be a championship player having Andre or Billy
Vunipola flying at you at full tilt?
>
--- End Quote ---
Oh yes, not sure how I forgot about them...means one team loses
out or you stretch groups even further.
I know it has its problems in places but just putting idea out
there. The Championship has been cast off by the RFU so maybe by
including them in a league they will have more funding which
would lead to improvement of the teams.
#Post#: 97166--------------------------------------------------
Re: What Next?
DIR By: T-Bone
Date: October 13, 2022, 11:46 am
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none of these solutions addresses the reality the rugby is a
minority sport and will remain so. "england" fans who watch
during the world cup and 6 nations don't care about rugby the
rest of the season in the same way I don't about county crciket.
talk of growing the game is silly
marcus, maro, etc would like us to emulate nfl but it ain't
going to happen. football is the sport in england - union,
league, cricket and hockey can fight over the scraps. everything
you do to alienate the small existing base will only hasten the
demise
the supporter base is probably getting older too. stop trying to
convert a market who don't care and try to retain the market you
have, and their children
#Post#: 97168--------------------------------------------------
Re: What Next?
DIR By: Quinofthestoneage
Date: October 13, 2022, 3:41 pm
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I don't often agree with him, but I think Andy Goode might be
right. He put forward the idea that CVC might be waiting for all
this stuff to play out and then offer a sum of money for the
whole league itself (e.g premiership rugby) plus a stake in some
clubs. I'm not an F1 fan, but perhaps someone who is could say
how this went for that sport? I get the impression that the fans
don't like it, but it would be interesting to know.
#Post#: 97172--------------------------------------------------
Re: What Next?
DIR By: DOK
Date: October 13, 2022, 4:41 pm
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Proposals for new 10-team Premiership gaining support as crisis
continues
HTML https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/oct/13/proposals-for-new-10-team-premiership-gaining-support-as-crisis-continues
#Post#: 97173--------------------------------------------------
Re: What Next?
DIR By: Quinston Churchill
Date: October 13, 2022, 4:56 pm
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--- Quote from: T-Bone link ---
>
> none of these solutions addresses the reality the rugby is a
minority sport and will remain so. "england" fans who watch
during the world cup and 6 nations don't care about rugby the
rest of the season in the same way I don't about county crciket.
talk of growing the game is silly
>
> marcus, maro, etc would like us to emulate nfl but it ain't
going to happen. football is the sport in england - union,
league, cricket and hockey can fight over the scraps. everything
you do to alienate the small existing base will only hasten the
demise
>
> the supporter base is probably getting older too. stop trying
to convert a market who don't care and try to retain the market
you have, and their children
>
--- End Quote ---
For the most part, I agree with you. However, I don’t think I’d
go as far as branding ‘talk of growing the game’ as ‘silly’.
I’d argue that the Premiership is quite a bit more entertaining
than test rugby and the profile of players is probably greater
than it ever has been. ‘Marcus, Maro, etc.’ might be overly
ambitious, but I think they’re broadly on the right track. There
are opportunities for social media etc. to grow the presence of
rugby in fans’ minds outside of the 6N and RWC. The sport is
also way more diverse than ever which also makes it more
accessible to those outside of traditional supporter base. That
can only be a good thing IMO.
The bigger issue is that rugby is still run by dinosaurs and is
terrible at promoting itself. Is it ever going to be NFL or
football? Of course not. However, I think it could definitely be
bigger and significantly more financially viable than it is now.
Out of interest, what do you feel is being done to ‘alienate the
small existing base’?
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