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#Post#: 97115--------------------------------------------------
What Next?
DIR By: East Sussex Chris
Date: October 13, 2022, 1:50 am
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Where does English Club Rugby go ? Lots of Alternatives but
which are viable
1) Clear out deadwood examine finances of all Premiership teams
and Championship teams and award a 10 year franchise to each
club that wishes to be included in top flight.
2) Talk with SRU and WRU about a new league
3) Carry on as we are and hope for best
4) Have half a dozen or so Regional Clubs and a lesser club
rugby set up. (won't be popular with fans but will ensure
England still have a large pool of players)
5) other suggestions
#Post#: 97119--------------------------------------------------
Re: What Next?
DIR By: Banstead Quin
Date: October 13, 2022, 3:10 am
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I've always thought that the franchise route is where we'll end
up, even before this round of administrations. It will sadly
mean that big sugar daddy owners will see the end of the salary
cap meaning that your Sarries & Bristol's will just get bigger
and buy all of the talent....oh wait, hang on a minute!
Joking aside, I think that's where owners want to take it and
the players will always take the 'more money' option (and why
shouldn't they) so The London Knights or Twickenham Raiders is
sadly our future. The only possible redeeming factor is that we
have a strong brand so might keep the Quins name in there
somewhere or the shirt.
I'd expect it to go European as well as that's where the big
bucks is in with the French & Irish and one team from wales and
Scotland.
#Post#: 97126--------------------------------------------------
Re: What Next?
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: October 13, 2022, 4:31 am
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Which will be when my tenure as a STH will end.
#Post#: 97127--------------------------------------------------
Re: What Next?
DIR By: Monte
Date: October 13, 2022, 4:56 am
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Mark Evans prophecy of a European super league to come true
then? What was it 15 years ago?
#Post#: 97128--------------------------------------------------
Re: What Next?
DIR By: Surbiton Quin
Date: October 13, 2022, 5:54 am
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Not sure if the franchises thing will fly at all. For a few
reasons
1 - Fans - attendance is voluntary, even if you play at the same
ground with some of the players doesn't guarantee support - see
the Welsh regions, for how it goes wrong. In cricket the novelty
of the crisp packet league is wearing off and long term fans are
staying away - source SCCC membership stats - that's even with
basically cancelling all other cricket in August - this is why
the Ashes is finishing in July next year. See also the lack of
cross over support when there was Quins RL, one of the bigger
stuff ups of Evans.
2 Geography - which crosses over into 1 admittedly - support is
not uniform so which clubs go out of Bath Bristol and
Gloucester?
3 Who pays? The clubs have different ownership structures and
legal entities. If the premiership goes who buys the P shares?
Who pays for breaking the agreements? How pays for the grounds?
4 Sponsors - Club rugby isn't a big draw on TV, it's a good day
out. Many sponsors want to get to the match day attendees rather
than the TV audience alone. Fewer matches with possibly fewer
fans means less incentive.
For me if we merged with whatever phoenix's out of Wasps and
would called something else in a different kit that would be me
done after 25+ years as a season ticket holder.
#Post#: 97132--------------------------------------------------
Re: What Next?
DIR By: T-Bone
Date: October 13, 2022, 6:25 am
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--- Quote from: Surbiton Quin link ---
>
> Not sure if the franchises thing will fly at all. For a few
reasons
>
> 1 - Fans - attendance is voluntary, even if you play at the
same ground with some of the players doesn't guarantee support -
see the Welsh regions, for how it goes wrong. In cricket the
novelty of the crisp packet league is wearing off and long term
fans are staying away - source SCCC membership stats - that's
even with basically cancelling all other cricket in August -
this is why the Ashes is finishing in July next year. See also
the lack of cross over support when there was Quins RL, one of
the bigger stuff ups of Evans.
>
> 2 Geography - which crosses over into 1 admittedly - support
is not uniform so which clubs go out of Bath Bristol and
Gloucester?
>
> 3 Who pays? The clubs have different ownership structures and
legal entities. If the premiership goes who buys the P shares?
Who pays for breaking the agreements? How pays for the grounds?
>
> 4 Sponsors - Club rugby isn't a big draw on TV, it's a good
day out. Many sponsors want to get to the match day attendees
rather than the TV audience alone. Fewer matches with possibly
fewer fans means less incentive.
>
> For me if we merged with whatever phoenix's out of Wasps and
would called something else in a different kit that would be me
done after 25+ years as a season ticket holder.
>
--- End Quote ---
Spot on. If Quins became the London Jesters or whatever, I'd
still go to some matches and would still watch some on TV, but I
don't think I'd be a STH anymore. If they decided that Quins
would be the base for one of the franchises, maybe I would still
follow them in the same way I do now, and would retain my STH,
but if that meant the end of London Irish and they merged with
us, I wouldn't expect their STHs to join us en masse. If we
merged with another club and moved, I'd lose all interest.
Basically, if Quins morphed into a franchise but kept the
ground, name, colours, etc, I'd still support in the same way I
do now, but any sort of move away from that and I'd lost a lot
of interest and just go to the occasional game.
We're probably fine, as we have the support base and ground and
only one local rival, in Irish. As they don't have the same
support base and share a ground, they'd probably have to merge
with us. If there's just one London team then I'm not sure what
would happen. Sarries have the finances and success but not the
support base and ground.
The problem is in the west country and midlands. To make sense,
a franchise would have to merge tigers and saints, and do
something with bristol, bath, gloucester and exeter. Some clubs
would then lose their traditional identity and probably a lot of
their following.
Rugby is constantly trying to grow the game, but a move to
franchises would probably alienate a large chunk of the
existing, already too small, supporter base
#Post#: 97136--------------------------------------------------
Re: What Next?
DIR By: Nico Wilson
Date: October 13, 2022, 6:36 am
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--- Quote from: East Sussex Chris link ---
>
> 5) other suggestions
>
--- End Quote ---
We all know the magnetic effect of Marcus Smith etc in pulling
in big crowds. I’d like to see the season restructured so that
we don’t lose players to England for weeks at a time.
#Post#: 97145--------------------------------------------------
Re: What Next?
DIR By: Banstead Quin
Date: October 13, 2022, 8:09 am
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I'd like to agree with you SQ & T-Bone but I just can't see how
the game will sustain itself if these clubs keep disappearing,
fanbase or not and the money guys know that ultimately, we will
just want to watch Rugby and will swallow whatever they come up
with. A couple of hundred fans out of 14,000 won't make a huge
difference to their bottom lines when they are eyeing up bigger
TV deals. With the Boks now in there as well, the audience and
sponsors will just increase.
I do agree that the strength of our brand would see us survive
over an Irish and the Stoop would be a big factor but if say
Irish & Falcons were to go, then it's a 9 team league and
although you could adjust the season so that it wouldn't clash
with internationals then that would work but the gaps left won't
sit there for long and as they did with the Hundred, they'll
find ways of keeping the income levels up and before you know
it.......
#Post#: 97147--------------------------------------------------
Re: What Next?
DIR By: ecrowe
Date: October 13, 2022, 8:22 am
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I know it may fit into one of the suggested options but what
about a NFL style league? The league would be ringfenced with
the uptake of some championship teams.
North - Newcastle, Sale, Nottingham, Doncaster, Leeds, Caldy
Midlands - Leicester, Northampton, Wasps, Worcester, Bedford
London - Quins, Irish, Sarries, Ealing, Richmond, London
Scottish
West Country - Bath, Gloucester, Bristol, Jersey, Cornish
Pirates
Each team plays the teams in their league home and away and then
play ONE team from the other leagues - totalling 12 games over
the season. Top two of each league go to a knock out match all
ending with a final.
Fans still get to see a mixture of opposition teams at home and
get to travel to away games across the England.
#Post#: 97151--------------------------------------------------
Re: What Next?
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: October 13, 2022, 8:34 am
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--- Quote from: ecrowe link ---
>
> I know it may fit into one of the suggested options but what
about a NFL style league? The league would be ringfenced with
the uptake of some championship teams.
>
> North - Newcastle, Sale, Nottingham, Doncaster, Leeds, Caldy
>
> Midlands - Leicester, Northampton, Wasps, Worcester, Bedford
>
> London - Quins, Irish, Sarries, Ealing, Richmond, London
Scottish
>
> West Country - Bath, Gloucester, Bristol, Jersey, Cornish
Pirates
>
> Each team plays the teams in their league home and away and
then play ONE team from the other leagues - totalling 12 games
over the season. Top two of each league go to a knock out match
all ending with a final.
>
> Fans still get to see a mixture of opposition teams at home
and get to travel to away games across the England.
>
--- End Quote ---
Spread all the talent amongst 22 teams thus lowering the
standard of rugby? Or have some dreadful mismatches otherwise
no-one could consider competing in Europe.
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