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#Post#: 96358--------------------------------------------------
Re: OT - England 36 Man Training Squad
DIR By: Quinky
Date: September 28, 2022, 2:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> On that note, there was a video from Squidge a few months ago
about why England will win the World Cup. Worth digging out to
counter some of the anti-Eddie vitriol.
>
> My own point of view is that most people would agree that
Eddie is desperate to win his own World Cup (rather than as a
consultant). Whatever else he does, I’d bet my house on him
doing everything he can to make that happen.
>
> He’ll be 63 next year. Is he going to work with another top
international team for 4 years? Plus who is likely to give him
the job? Realistically there are maybe 5 or 6 teams who
currently look likely to win the cup.
>
--- End Quote ---
I honestly can't see England winning. My heart says South
Africa, my head tells me it could also be France. I don't think
Ireland will have the staying power, and I think NZ will falter.
Australia could be a rak horse, and worth an outside bet.
Outside of that handful, I doubt anyone else will make it.
#Post#: 96361--------------------------------------------------
Re: OT - England 36 Man Training Squad
DIR By: poorfour
Date: September 28, 2022, 2:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> I honestly can't see England winning. My heart says South
Africa, my head tells me it could also be France. I don't think
Ireland will have the staying power, and I think NZ will falter.
Australia could be a rak horse, and worth an outside bet.
Outside of that handful, I doubt anyone else will make it.
>
--- End Quote ---
Wind the clock back to 2018, and be honest: could you have
predicted the finalists or the winner?
Ireland were in the ascendancy, New Zealand did not look that
far behind, England were emerging from a crisis and South Africa
were a mess.
What Squidge is pointing out is that while England are losing
games at the moment, they are trying to do things that will be
difficult to stop. He highlighted several easily fixable things
in defence (that from memory stem from the team not being that
familiar with each other) and some attacks that didn't quite
come off but where all the pieces are in place to make them
happen.
Gatland appears to think something similar. An Aussie journalist
threw him an open invitation to bash England and his response
was basically "they're not ready yet, but by the time of the RWC
Smith may well be seeing the game in slow motion and then you
should be really worried."
In the last RWC cycle, England only started to motor with the
win in Dublin in the 6N, and they only really hit their peak
against NZ in the semi-final.
Now, I think even Eddie would admit that he got some things
wrong in the final. He went in aiming to outlast the Boks and so
held his stronger scrummaging options back on the bench, and
went out far slower than England had against NZ. That didn't
look like the right game plan - but even so England were in
touch at 50 minutes and even looked like turning the tide once
Marler and Kruis came on and shored up the scrum. In the end,
the cost of having Dan Cole play 78 minutes and of being on the
back foot for so long was too much to overcome, but I still
think England could have won had Sinckler played his full role.
I'll bet that was in the back of his mind when he talked to the
SEALs about the Bin Laden raid. It's very much the same
scenario.
Eddie only really cares about the endgame, and for him the
endgame is the RWC. Everything else is incidental, and I suspect
he'd be quite prepared to pick up a Wooden Spoon if he felt it
would leave England in better shape to compete for Bill.
#Post#: 96364--------------------------------------------------
Re: OT - England 36 Man Training Squad
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: September 28, 2022, 3:12 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Who is Bill?
#Post#: 96365--------------------------------------------------
Re: OT - England 36 Man Training Squad
DIR By: Yareet
Date: September 28, 2022, 3:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> Wind the clock back to 2018, and be honest: could you have
predicted the finalists or the winner?
>
> Ireland were in the ascendancy, New Zealand did not look that
far behind, England were emerging from a crisis and South Africa
were a mess.
>
> What Squidge is pointing out is that while England are losing
games at the moment, they are trying to do things that will be
difficult to stop. He highlighted several easily fixable things
in defence (that from memory stem from the team not being that
familiar with each other) and some attacks that didn't quite
come off but where all the pieces are in place to make them
happen.
>
> Gatland appears to think something similar. An Aussie
journalist threw him an open invitation to bash England and his
response was basically "they're not ready yet, but by the time
of the RWC Smith may well be seeing the game in slow motion and
then you should be really worried."
>
> In the last RWC cycle, England only started to motor with the
win in Dublin in the 6N, and they only really hit their peak
against NZ in the semi-final.
>
> Now, I think even Eddie would admit that he got some things
wrong in the final. He went in aiming to outlast the Boks and so
held his stronger scrummaging options back on the bench, and
went out far slower than England had against NZ. That didn't
look like the right game plan - but even so England were in
touch at 50 minutes and even looked like turning the tide once
Marler and Kruis came on and shored up the scrum. In the end,
the cost of having Dan Cole play 78 minutes and of being on the
back foot for so long was too much to overcome, but I still
think England could have won had Sinckler played his full role.
>
> I'll bet that was in the back of his mind when he talked to
the SEALs about the Bin Laden raid. It's very much the same
scenario.
>
> Eddie only really cares about the endgame, and for him the
endgame is the RWC. Everything else is incidental, and I suspect
he'd be quite prepared to pick up a Wooden Spoon if he felt it
would leave England in better shape to compete for Bill.
>
--- End Quote ---
This, this and all of this.
Do I think England will win it? I wouldn’t go that far but I
think we have a decent chance. Put another way, which team has
shown that they will definitely beat us.
I also can’t understand why France are some people’s out and out
favourites given what happened to Ireland 4 years ago.
Some coaches aim for consistent success; others use the years
between world cups to blood players, refine tactics and aim to
peak when it matters to that coach/team.
#Post#: 96366--------------------------------------------------
Re: OT - England 36 Man Training Squad
DIR By: never sleep
Date: September 28, 2022, 3:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: deadlyfrom5yardsout link ---
>
> Who is Bill?
>
--- End Quote ---
Bill = William - i.e. William Webb Ellis Cup
#Post#: 96368--------------------------------------------------
Re: OT - England 36 Man Training Squad
DIR By: T-Bone
Date: September 28, 2022, 4:10 am
---------------------------------------------------------
"I'll bet that was in the back of his mind when he talked to the
SEALs about the Bin Laden raid. It's very much the same
scenario."
I don't get this reference. Please explain
#Post#: 96372--------------------------------------------------
Re: OT - England 36 Man Training Squad
DIR By: Yareet
Date: September 28, 2022, 5:21 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: T-Bone link ---
>
> "I'll bet that was in the back of his mind when he talked to
the SEALs about the Bin Laden raid. It's very much the same
scenario."
>
> I don't get this reference. Please explain
>
--- End Quote ---
HTML https://www.planetrugby.com/news/england-eddie-jones-using-navy-seals-as-inspiration-ahead-of-rugby-world-cup
#Post#: 96374--------------------------------------------------
Re: OT - England 36 Man Training Squad
DIR By: T-Bone
Date: September 28, 2022, 5:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
>
HTML https://www.planetrugby.com/news/england-eddie-jones-using-navy-seals-as-inspiration-ahead-of-rugby-world-cup
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks.
I really can't agree that a Navy SEALS operation is in any way
comparable to a rugby game, but I know that a lot of people love
the comparisons between rugby and war / the military and I do
get the general thrust of the argument "plan for the
unpredictable".
I'd rather they just stopped kicking good ball away though and
stopped picking average players, and good players out of
position
#Post#: 96375--------------------------------------------------
Re: OT - England 36 Man Training Squad
DIR By: Quinky
Date: September 28, 2022, 6:14 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> Wind the clock back to 2018, and be honest: could you have
predicted the finalists or the winner?
>
> Ireland were in the ascendancy, New Zealand did not look that
far behind, England were emerging from a crisis and South Africa
were a mess.
>
> What Squidge is pointing out is that while England are losing
games at the moment, they are trying to do things that will be
difficult to stop. He highlighted several easily fixable things
in defence (that from memory stem from the team not being that
familiar with each other) and some attacks that didn't quite
come off but where all the pieces are in place to make them
happen.
>
> Gatland appears to think something similar. An Aussie
journalist threw him an open invitation to bash England and his
response was basically "they're not ready yet, but by the time
of the RWC Smith may well be seeing the game in slow motion and
then you should be really worried."
>
> In the last RWC cycle, England only started to motor with the
win in Dublin in the 6N, and they only really hit their peak
against NZ in the semi-final.
>
> Now, I think even Eddie would admit that he got some things
wrong in the final. He went in aiming to outlast the Boks and so
held his stronger scrummaging options back on the bench, and
went out far slower than England had against NZ. That didn't
look like the right game plan - but even so England were in
touch at 50 minutes and even looked like turning the tide once
Marler and Kruis came on and shored up the scrum. In the end,
the cost of having Dan Cole play 78 minutes and of being on the
back foot for so long was too much to overcome, but I still
think England could have won had Sinckler played his full role.
>
> I'll bet that was in the back of his mind when he talked to
the SEALs about the Bin Laden raid. It's very much the same
scenario.
>
> Eddie only really cares about the endgame, and for him the
endgame is the RWC. Everything else is incidental, and I suspect
he'd be quite prepared to pick up a Wooden Spoon if he felt it
would leave England in better shape to compete for Bill.
>
--- End Quote ---
Honestly, yes. I watch SA rugby closely, nd felt like they would
peak at the right time. Apart from a minor blip, they were
pretty consistent. Also they had strength in areas that they
played to, and were hard to beat. I was surprised that England
got to the final, but they did, and deservedly so. Sinkler going
off was a bit setback, but Cole was there as he was believed to
be the second best, althought playing pretty much the whole game
is a big ask for any prop - Joe excluded.
England have a lot of strengths, and some excellent players. But
IMO they lack the cohesion and consistency necessary to with RWC
- this time. They also seem to lack a plan B when plan A isn't
working. France - they're quietly going about their game, and
crucially have both a strong defence and a consistency that they
rarely showed in the past. Maybe it's the Edwards phenomena, but
they're a class outfit. NZ have lost the air of invincibility,
and have a few guys who seem to struggle with the pace of a
typical NZ game, which is no surprise given their length of
career e.g. Whitelock.Aus need to get their full squad fit and
mentally right, then they have the ability and the knack of
turning teams over. Ireland win games that some might expect
them to lose, through sheer stubborness at times! But their
games seem attritional to me, and to do that possibly four or
five times in a short space of time is not something I forsee.
Why the Boks? Obviously I'm biased. I also see a team that's
blooded new guys at the right time, and have very few areas of
concern - fly half being one of them. But when you look at the
quality of guys that can't or can only rarely get a game for
them, you see how they're a tough team to doubt.
All my opinion of course, and we'll see in the near future.
#Post#: 96377--------------------------------------------------
Re: OT - England 36 Man Training Squad
DIR By: Quinston Churchill
Date: September 28, 2022, 7:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The Rugby Championship and summer tours again highlighted how
little there is between the top teams. More or less any of the
top 8 teams can beat each other on any given day. Ireland and
France look like the strongest and most consistent teams right
now, but a) that might not be the case in a years’ time and b)
pre-tournament form doesn’t always translate to a knock-out
format.
Predicting who finishes first or second in the groups is tough,
but I find it difficult to see beyond France, NZ, SA, Ireland,
Australia, Wales, England and Argentina making up the last 8.
Honestly, I don’t expect England to win it, but I certainly
wouldn’t write us off. An easier group isn’t always helpful, but
I would fancy us against Wales or Australia in a QF.
I don’t like Eddie Jones and I disagree with a lot of his
decisions, but I do back him to get us playing well again when
it comes to the RWC.
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