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#Post#: 96286--------------------------------------------------
Re: OT - England 36 Man Training Squad
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: September 26, 2022, 7:48 am
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Dingwall had a good season last season and had a cracking game
at the weekend - he has deserved a callup for a while. I think
he's probably a bit flimsy for international rugby, but we'll
see if he gets a shot.
13 will be Manu, then Porter when Manu breaks.
#Post#: 96287--------------------------------------------------
Re: OT - England 36 Man Training Squad
DIR By: poorfour
Date: September 26, 2022, 7:52 am
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Don’t take the training squad too seriously. I think Eddie calls
players up for two reasons and his squads are always a mix of
the two. There are those players with whom he wants to work on
the tactics for the upcoming series, and there are those players
he wants to take a good look at and see if they’re ready or
nearly ready. But he doesn’t like large squads, because he wants
to make sure that no-one is hanging around.
So you get these odd mixes of certainties and possibles. We
won’t really know what he’s thinking until the AI squads are
announced.
For instance, I’d not be at all surprised if Marler has had a
glass of red with Ed and told him “look Beav, if you want to
take me to the RWC I’ll give it my all, but I don’t want to be
away from the missus for more than is necessary this year.” And
Eddie may have said “I can’t be arsed with that drama, mate, not
when I’ve got Mako and Gengey” or he may have said “I love your
honesty mate, and I need a prop who won’t get munched by the
Boks, so I’ll give you a shout when I need you.”
Who can tell?
#Post#: 96293--------------------------------------------------
Re: OT - England 36 Man Training Squad
DIR By: Guildford Quin
Date: September 26, 2022, 9:11 am
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--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> Dingwall had a good season last season and had a cracking game
at the weekend - he has deserved a callup for a while. I think
he's probably a bit flimsy for international rugby, but we'll
see if he gets a shot.
>
> 13 will be Manu, then Porter when Manu breaks.
>
--- End Quote ---
For me, it's the Scottsman Hutchinson who is the standout in the
Saints midfield not Dingwall, and Manu should be at 12. I really
hope Eddie's not going for a Smith/Farrell/Tuilagi combination,
but fear you could be right
#Post#: 96305--------------------------------------------------
Re: OT - England 36 Man Training Squad
DIR By: poorfour
Date: September 26, 2022, 11:26 am
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--- Quote from: Neil Quinnock link ---
>
> For me, it's the Scottsman Hutchinson who is the standout in
the Saints midfield not Dingwall, and Manu should be at 12. I
really hope Eddie's not going for a Smith/Farrell/Tuilagi
combination, but fear you could be right
>
--- End Quote ---
Smith / Farrell / Tuilagi is a similar mix of skillsets to Smith
/ Esterhuizen / Northmore (albeit in different shirts) and that
works well enough. Marcus does benefit from having someone who
can make the hard yards alongside him. The big issue is whether
Manu is anywhere near durable enough to last a tournament these
days. His run of injuries and comebacks makes Wilkinson
2004-2007 (who I had the misfortune to see get crocked on
comeback on more than one occasion) look like a model of
robustness and good fortune.
#Post#: 96308--------------------------------------------------
Re: OT - England 36 Man Training Squad
DIR By: Mayor West
Date: September 26, 2022, 12:48 pm
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Joe was I’ll on Sunday morning, we don’t know with what but it’s
possible that this is a factor. Eddy knows what he brings to the
squad so maybe he doesn’t need him and wants to see what other
players have got. It is odd why certain players get called back
into the squad after poor performances . I can only assume that
if you offer an opinion or ask a question in Jones’s direction
you’ve had it. Yes men only.
#Post#: 96331--------------------------------------------------
Re: OT - England 36 Man Training Squad
DIR By: T-Bone
Date: September 27, 2022, 6:04 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> Smith / Farrell / Tuilagi is a similar mix of skillsets to
Smith / Esterhuizen / Northmore (albeit in different shirts) and
that works well enough. Marcus does benefit from having someone
who can make the hard yards alongside him. The big issue is
whether Manu is anywhere near durable enough to last a
tournament these days. His run of injuries and comebacks makes
Wilkinson 2004-2007 (who I had the misfortune to see get crocked
on comeback on more than one occasion) look like a model of
robustness and good fortune.
>
--- End Quote ---
Smith / Farrell / Tuilagi might have a similar skillset to Smith
/ Andre/ Northmore (in different shirts) but Andre and Northmore
allow Marcus to play rather than stifling him, as do our
coaches. I just don't see any point in playing Marcus alongside
Farrell, or indeed asking him to implement Jones' game plan. Let
him play his game, or put Farrell there to carry out Jones'
preferred game plan
#Post#: 96335--------------------------------------------------
Re: OT - England 36 Man Training Squad
DIR By: Quinston Churchill
Date: September 27, 2022, 6:14 am
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--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> He's been dropped and told to go away and work on some things
- it's not just about the training squad. He was dropped in
Australia for Porter, who then performed abominably but has been
rewarded with a callup, while Marchant's been cut. It's not a
"work on it this week" thing, otherwise he'd not have been
dropped in Australia.
>
> It seems pretty straightforward to me - Marchant's out of the
picture for the AIs at least.
>
--- End Quote ---
It does seem that way which makes me angry and sad for Marchant
who I genuinely believe is the best 13 in England.
To suggest he has to ‘work on his game’ is clearly bollocks when
he’s happy to pick objectively inferior players.
At least he is young enough to be around when Eddie is gone.
#Post#: 96336--------------------------------------------------
Re: OT - England 36 Man Training Squad
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: September 27, 2022, 6:27 am
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Yup. He's a good winger and a brilliant 13. He has a great
running game, is surprisingly powerful in contact, is our best
defensive 13, has a decent boot, and is very highly skilled. He
isn't huge and isn't going to straight up smash people, and
unsurprisingly for a good attacking back he needs to get the
ball to do something with it.
It's mad that he's been dropped and even madder who he's been
dropped for.
I find the England side to be a bit depressing at the moment as
they're not the sum of their parts. I'd be less bothered about
it if they didn't keep injuring players in training and robbing
teams of good players who then don't get any game time, but
we've finally had a couple of seasons of really good
entertaining and adventurous club rugby and the national side
seems to be intentionally designed to be an antidote to it,
crafted by a man who doesn't rate English rugby at all and who
delights in trying to outfox everyone by making weird selections
that frequently backfire - all while treating some players very
shabbily indeed.
#Post#: 96349--------------------------------------------------
Re: OT - England 36 Man Training Squad
DIR By: poorfour
Date: September 27, 2022, 10:35 am
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You forgot to mention that Nacho is superb under the high ball
(especially given there are many taller players around) and is
very possibly the best reader of the ball itself in world rugby
at the moment. The number of times he is there for a loose ball
is remarkable in itself, but you can add to that the plays he
makes that I don't think anyone else could pull off - Sunday's
try, or the one he created for Jones last season, or the salmon
leap against Saracens.
Meanwhile...
[quote=T-Bone]Smith / Farrell / Tuilagi might have a similar
skillset to Smith / Andre/ Northmore (in different shirts) but
Andre and Northmore allow Marcus to play rather than stifling
him, as do our coaches. I just don't see any point in playing
Marcus alongside Farrell, or indeed asking him to implement
Jones' game plan. Let him play his game, or put Farrell there to
carry out Jones' preferred game plan[/quote]
I don't think that's what's happening at all. I genuinely don't
believe that a coach of Eddie's standard would watch Smith for 7
years only to drop him in and ask him to play a limited game. I
think it's more likely that Warren Gatland is right and Smith is
still adapting to the pace of international rugby - but is
gradually getting there and the more he plays the more time he
will have on the ball. Gatland has said he thinks it likely that
by the RWC Smith will be seeing even the international game in
slow motion, and that will be very dangerous for England's
opponents.
One of Eddie's big things is that he doesn't want to give too
much away too early. He's got repeated form for only starting to
implement his RWC tactics after the Lions summer (when the Law
variations for the RWC come into force) and only getting it to
the boil in time for the tournament itself. If England look a
bit stilted now, it's because they're still in transition, and
Eddie is trying to avoid what happened to Ireland last time out.
Which brings us back to Marchant. What does worry me is that I
am not sure Eddie sees how important Marchant is to Smith's
game. If we do get to see Smith playing his natural game at full
strength in an England shirt, then he is going to make
unexpected plays, and Marchant is the player I most expect to be
able to capitalise on them. England will leave points on the
field if Marchant isn't involved.
#Post#: 96350--------------------------------------------------
Re: OT - England 36 Man Training Squad
DIR By: Yareet
Date: September 27, 2022, 12:06 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> You forgot to mention that Nacho is superb under the high ball
(especially given there are many taller players around) and is
very possibly the best reader of the ball itself in world rugby
at the moment. The number of times he is there for a loose ball
is remarkable in itself, but you can add to that the plays he
makes that I don't think anyone else could pull off - Sunday's
try, or the one he created for Jones last season, or the salmon
leap against Saracens.
>
> Meanwhile...
>
> I don't think that's what's happening at all. I genuinely
don't believe that a coach of Eddie's standard would watch Smith
for 7 years only to drop him in and ask him to play a limited
game. I think it's more likely that Warren Gatland is right and
Smith is still adapting to the pace of international rugby - but
is gradually getting there and the more he plays the more time
he will have on the ball. Gatland has said he thinks it likely
that by the RWC Smith will be seeing even the international game
in slow motion, and that will be very dangerous for England's
opponents.
>
> One of Eddie's big things is that he doesn't want to give too
much away too early. He's got repeated form for only starting to
implement his RWC tactics after the Lions summer (when the Law
variations for the RWC come into force) and only getting it to
the boil in time for the tournament itself. If England look a
bit stilted now, it's because they're still in transition, and
Eddie is trying to avoid what happened to Ireland last time out.
>
> Which brings us back to Marchant. What does worry me is that I
am not sure Eddie sees how important Marchant is to Smith's
game. If we do get to see Smith playing his natural game at full
strength in an England shirt, then he is going to make
unexpected plays, and Marchant is the player I most expect to be
able to capitalise on them. England will leave points on the
field if Marchant isn't involved.
>
--- End Quote ---
On that note, there was a video from Squidge a few months ago
about why England will win the World Cup. Worth digging out to
counter some of the anti-Eddie vitriol.
My own point of view is that most people would agree that Eddie
is desperate to win his own World Cup (rather than as a
consultant). Whatever else he does, I’d bet my house on him
doing everything he can to make that happen.
He’ll be 63 next year. Is he going to work with another top
international team for 4 years? Plus who is likely to give him
the job? Realistically there are maybe 5 or 6 teams who
currently look likely to win the cup.
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