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#Post#: 95700--------------------------------------------------
Re: Team's Up!
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: September 17, 2022, 11:22 am
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I thought we dropped off after the second try. Smacked of
naivety to me.
#Post#: 95701--------------------------------------------------
Re: Team's Up!
DIR By: KiltedQuin
Date: September 17, 2022, 11:30 am
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--- Quote from: honkytonk link ---
>
> To beat Sarries you need your best players. I think we were
just missing too much quality in the end. Care, Smith, Lynagh,
Lewies, Chisholm and Andre. Collier and Dommers during the game.
They are the team to beat and we pushed them hard. We just need
to stay in touch with the play offs until we get a few return.
>
--- End Quote ---
You also need firm refereeing. Mr Foley was happy with barging
at the line-out, diving over rucks, jumping into the tackle and
there was at least one probably two no arms tackles. He was also
harder on us than he was on Sarries with interference at the
back of the ruck. I don't know what his touch judge's were on
but I could see offences 50 yards away that were 2 metres in
front of them.
Overall, a decent result with our younger players. Sarries had
more internationalist on the bench than we had in our 23. And to
be fair Collier only has 1 or 2. A bit better game management
and some sympathetic refereeing and we would have won that.
#Post#: 95702--------------------------------------------------
Re: Team's Up!
DIR By: Quinston Churchill
Date: September 17, 2022, 11:31 am
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--- Quote from: RodneyRegis link ---
>
> Possibly related. But I think some supporters are happy to
look for mitigation wherever it can be found. We were miles
ahead, and a lot of that was down to luck. We stopped playing
our game and took the points, then tried to hold on. We adopted
a really, really bad kicking game and sarries played all the
rugby in the second half. Sure that's partly down to the missing
eraonnel, but don't tell me that team couldn't have beaten
sarries with a 17 point lead.
>
> We can't bang on about the quins way and then jettison it as
soon as we come up against a decent side.
>
--- End Quote ---
I agree with most of your post but I assume the bolded is
directed at me (amongst others).
I’m not looking to make excuses when we play poorly but I find
the attitude of some so distasteful that I feel I need to defend
the club we all (apparently) support.
I dispute the assertion that it was a ‘humiliation’. That may be
my opinion rather than a fact, but I think it’s fair to say that
most people with a rational mind would agree that choice of word
is inappropriate and massively hyperbolic. I think it is simply
a point of fact that their ability to field the likes of Itoje,
Farrell and the Vunipolas when we weren’t allowed to pick Smith
meant that they started with an advantage.
#Post#: 95703--------------------------------------------------
Re: Team's Up!
DIR By: RingwoodQuin
Date: September 17, 2022, 11:36 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: RodneyRegis link ---
>
> Possibly related. But I think some supporters are happy to
look for mitigation wherever it can be found. We were miles
ahead, and a lot of that was down to luck. We stopped playing
our game and took the points, then tried to hold on. We adopted
a really, really bad kicking game and sarries played all the
rugby in the second half. Sure that's partly down to the missing
eraonnel, but don't tell me that team couldn't have beaten
sarries with a 17 point lead.
>
> We can't bang on about the quins way and then jettison it as
soon as we come up against a decent side.
>
--- End Quote ---
The Quins way is based on forwards dominance at the breakdown
and quick ball, followed by esterhuizen breaking the game line.
After 30 mins, we didn’t have that at all so no options. They
just mullered us up front after that, we were forced to make
errors and we had no ball. Simple game really!
Considering we had premiership debutees, a significant prematch
injury list and lost Dommers at 35m, and at times their
offloading game was excellent, a LBP was a real achievement.
I don’t think we are the best team in the prem this year but
playing well enough to get top 4.
#Post#: 95704--------------------------------------------------
Re: Team's Up!
DIR By: Quinten Poulsen
Date: September 17, 2022, 11:38 am
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--- Quote from: RodneyRegis link ---
>
> Possibly related. But I think some supporters are happy to
look for mitigation wherever it can be found. We were miles
ahead, and a lot of that was down to luck. We stopped playing
our game and took the points, then tried to hold on. We adopted
a really, really bad kicking game and sarries played all the
rugby in the second half. Sure that's partly down to the missing
eraonnel, but don't tell me that team couldn't have beaten
sarries with a 17 point lead.
>
> We can't bang on about the quins way and then jettison it as
soon as we come up against a decent side.
>
--- End Quote ---
Indeed. Both side of this argument can be true. A 3 point loss
when looking at the team sheets is pretty creditable. However,
looking at the performance it was disappointing how we fell out
of the game, ran out of ideas and appeared to stop playing our
usual way. There was a large amount of graft and physicality
from the team but ball in hand Sarries were on another level in
the second half. Oh, plus their kicking game was better as well.
Edit: I should have read all of your post and not the first
sentence as I just repeated what you said.
#Post#: 95705--------------------------------------------------
Re: Team's Up!
DIR By: QuinsMighty
Date: September 17, 2022, 11:43 am
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Disappointing game; have to give Salarycens credit, but we
always seem to go into our shell when playing them. Same thing
happened in the playoffs, we score 2 early tries and go into our
shell and start kicking it whenever we have the ball.
We’re lacking proper ball carriers at the moment, none of our
props make the dynamic movements like a Mako, Genge or Sinckler;
and after Dombrandt went off we didn’t have the power in the
backrow to get over the gameline. Chisholm and Lawday being
injured also doesn’t help that - Normally with Esterhuizen we’d
be fine, but I felt Lennox struggled today.
#Post#: 95706--------------------------------------------------
Re: Team's Up!
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: September 17, 2022, 11:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinston Churchill link ---
>
> I agree with most of your post but I assume the bolded is
directed at me (amongst others).
>
> I’m not looking to make excuses when we play poorly but I find
the attitude of some so distasteful that I feel I need to defend
the club we all (apparently) support.
>
> I dispute the assertion that it was a ‘humiliation’. That may
be my opinion rather than a fact, but I think it’s fair to say
that most people with a rational mind would agree that choice of
word is inappropriate and massively hyperbolic. I think it is
simply a point of fact that their ability to field the likes of
Itoje, Farrell and the Vunipolas when we weren’t allowed to pick
Smith meant that they started with an advantage.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yeah 'humiliation' is idiotic really
#Post#: 95707--------------------------------------------------
Re: Team's Up!
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: September 17, 2022, 11:47 am
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--- Quote from: RingwoodQuin link ---
>
> The Quins way is based on forwards dominance at the breakdown
and quick ball, followed by esterhuizen breaking the game line.
>
--- End Quote ---
No.
Thats utterly reductive. The quins way isn't 'based' on much at
all, that's the point. Forward dominance and one of the best 12s
in the world helps, just as it would help NY system ever played,
but that's not the basis for it, at all.
#Post#: 95708--------------------------------------------------
Re: Team's Up!
DIR By: Captquin
Date: September 17, 2022, 12:07 pm
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Anyone know who was captain in Dombrandt's absence out of
interest?
#Post#: 95709--------------------------------------------------
Re: Team's Up!
DIR By: The Kid
Date: September 17, 2022, 12:11 pm
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Having got home and thought about it a bit, don’t think we could
have too many complaints. As much as we shot ourselves in the
foot time and time again by executing poorly, Saracens were
excellent after half time in a way that we just didn’t have
answers to. I don’t think the plan to go to the air to compete
was a bad one, it was just executed poorly and Malins / Daly /
Macfarland caught everything. Dombrandt was so good in the first
half and we really missed him in the second. Was basically the
reason why we got an LBP.
Saracens were really rusty early on, but that wore off pretty
much on half time. They give us all sorts of trouble and are the
one team in this league against whom we really struggle to
impose ourselves for whatever reason. Our tries against them are
usually opportunistic or strike moves, and we struggle to break
through them like we do anyone else. Huge credit to them; they
aren’t likeable but they’re probably the best side in the
league. Completely shut us out in the second half.
We learned a lot about the younger guys today. Gjaltema had a
good first half, but a terrible second half. Stafford wasn’t any
better. Cares successor isn’t here yet, although I think Lewis
is an Ok deputy. Lenny had a mixed bag. Some good stuff
(turnover on our line, great smash up for Cadan’s first), but
found wanting a couple of times as well (silly penalties,
completely missing billy Vunipola for Tompkins’ try). He will
learn and be better. JTH 2.0, potentially, waiting to burst out
when he puts it all together. Not a young guy, but a new one;
Herbst looks the part. Complete nuisance. Tizard had a shocker
for them, on the contrary.
Think we can be happy enough with an LBP, given the personnel
not on the field from 40 mins onwards, as follows: Collier,
Lawday, Lewies, Dombrandt, Care, Smith, Esterhuizen. That’s the
beating heart of our team, right there, absent. The opposition
on the other hand, essentially full strength. A few more games
will tell, but I think we might be in for a slow start until we
get some of those guys back. Get through to the AIs in the top
half, then let’s see. We look like a playoff team, but probably
not an especially good one, and that might be the ceiling unless
the execution gets back to where it was 2 seasons ago
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