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#Post#: 93558--------------------------------------------------
Re: RFU Recommend Ban on TG Women
DIR By: SiB
Date: July 29, 2022, 2:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> Who are the trans activists, SiB?
>
--- End Quote ---
Sorry I’ve asked a question in regards to your comment that the
noise is all one way, so I’ll rephrase it
Is the noise only coming from the side that wants Trans players
to play in teams that they are not biologically the same as the
rest of the team or from the side that doesn’t want them to play
in a team that the rest of the players are not biologically the
same as the Trans player
#Post#: 93559--------------------------------------------------
Re: RFU Recommend Ban on TG Women
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: July 29, 2022, 2:28 am
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When does the Rugby season start?
#Post#: 93562--------------------------------------------------
Re: RFU Recommend Ban on TG Women
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: July 29, 2022, 2:46 am
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--- Quote from: SiB link ---
>
> Sorry I’ve asked a question in regards to your comment that
the noise is all one way, so I’ll rephrase it
> Is the noise only coming from the side that wants Trans
players to play in teams that they are not biologically the same
as the rest of the team or from the side that doesn’t want them
to play in a team that the rest of the players are not
biologically the same as the Trans player
>
--- End Quote ---
There are lots of people despairing at this country's attitude
to trans people and there's plenty of criticism on Twitter.
But "trans activists" is a telling phrase. Earlier in the thread
I mentioned several names of high profile people who are anti
trans and who spend a significant proportion of their public
communications banging on about trans issues in a negative way.
There are countless people with particular emojis in their
Twitter handles whose Twitter feeds are overwhelmingly anti
trans. Where are the equivalent of those people on the "pro
trans" side?
There are very few pro trans articles written in our national
media. There are many, many anti trans articles, written in
every major newspaper. I can name multiple journalists who have
become notoriously anti trans who continue to get published,
even after they make absolute fools of themselves trying to
shoehorn in anti trans sentiment in major interviews. Trans
people have virtually no representation in our media, and have
no equivalent of the high profile anti trans activists online
with huge followings and a grim dedication to the cause.
That's what I mean by noise.
#Post#: 93563--------------------------------------------------
Re: RFU Recommend Ban on TG Women
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: July 29, 2022, 2:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Also if you want trans men to play in women's teams you have not
thought this through for one second
#Post#: 93565--------------------------------------------------
Re: RFU Recommend Ban on TG Women
DIR By: SiB
Date: July 29, 2022, 2:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> Also if you want trans men to play in women's teams you have
not thought this through for one second
>
--- End Quote ---
I don’t, I’m actually in favour of ,until there is concrete
evidence I would say that rugby should stick with male and
female teams, and only allow mixed rugby up until the age of 11
as it’s currently played
I suggested recently that if the issue was as big as some make
it, then have trans sides and people can make their own mind up,
but I was told I was suggesting Apartheid to say such a thing
#Post#: 93566--------------------------------------------------
Re: RFU Recommend Ban on TG Women
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: July 29, 2022, 3:17 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: SiB link ---
>
> I don’t, I’m actually in favour of ,until there is concrete
evidence I would say that rugby should stick with male and
female teams, and only allow mixed rugby up until the age of 11
as it’s currently played
> I suggested recently that if the issue was as big as some make
it, then have trans sides and people can make their own mind up,
but I was told I was suggesting Apartheid to say such a thing
>
--- End Quote ---
Trans men are trans people who were assigned female at birth.
Unless I'm very much mistaken, your suggestion means they would
play in the women's teams, right? I think that one of our other
posters in a now-deleted comment on this thread made a similar
suggestion that trans people should play alongside those of
their original sex. This isn't a criticism of either of you
guys, but if you think it through then you're suggesting that
trans men, who identify as men, take hormones to make them more
physically male, outwardly appear as men, and (as treatment
continues) have a widening physical advantage of sorts over
women should continue to play in women's teams.
I think it's a very complicated situation with no easy answers.
I do respect the player safety argument, although I want people
to be consistent about that and for them to take player safety
seriously when it comes to physical mismatches of any kind,
trans people or not. I wish trans people actually had more of a
platform - frankly I'd love to know what their suggestions would
be, including whether they would accept a 'standing down' period
while the drugs take effect.
However, I do think the science is really thin, and that there's
a Catch-22 scenario here: trans people are not being allowed to
compete in the teams that match their gender identity and so
there's no way there'll be the science that actually helps
prove/disprove theories, especially ones that look beyond the
short term and with contact sport specific aims. Most of these
studies, even the few that do look at athletes and not soldiers
or whatever, look at only 12-24 months (I believe one was 36)
after starting hormonal treatment and simply look at some
physical characteristics to draw conclusions on top of that.
What if after 4 years there's zero practical difference between
a trans woman and a natal woman? We don't know, and it looks
like we won't know.
We'll end up with trans people essentially not being allowed to
play full stop. They won't be banned from playing rugby, but
it's an awful lot to ask a trans man to accept that they have to
play with women, while being a masculine bearded individual
taking hormones that would give them a big advantage over their
teammates and opposition, and likely see them banned from
competition; likewise, a trans woman would have to play
alongside men, while being more effeminate, taking drugs that
help them become more physically female, appear outwardly more
female, and reducing their physical power, etc. And that's
before you even begin to comtemplate the agony that most trans
people feel about being treated as the 'wrong' gender, which is
genuinely dangerous for trans people who are already suffering
from dysphoria.
#Post#: 93567--------------------------------------------------
Re: RFU Recommend Ban on TG Women
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: July 29, 2022, 3:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Some additional reading - a thread by the York RI ladies rugby
team:
HTML https://twitter.com/YorkRILadies/status/1552652218288857093
#Post#: 93568--------------------------------------------------
Re: RFU Recommend Ban on TG Women
DIR By: SiB
Date: July 29, 2022, 3:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
, I’m saying that should you identify as something that you are
biologically not, then you should play in a team with the same
biology until there is scientific proof that show your bone mass
etc will not cause injury or give advantage over others you are
competing against/with
And as mentioned if this really is such a big issue them trans
teams should be established and people can’t make their own
choice
#Post#: 93569--------------------------------------------------
Re: RFU Recommend Ban on TG Women
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: July 29, 2022, 3:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: SiB link ---
>
> , I’m saying that should you identify as something that you
are biologically not, then you should play in a team with the
same biology until there is scientific proof that show your bone
mass etc will not cause injury or give advantage over others you
are competing against/with
> And as mentioned if this really is such a big issue them trans
teams should be established and people can’t make their own
choice
>
--- End Quote ---
So do you think trans men should play in women's teams or men's
teams?
#Post#: 93576--------------------------------------------------
Re: RFU Recommend Ban on TG Women
DIR By: SiB
Date: July 29, 2022, 5:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> So do you think trans men should play in women's teams or
men's teams?
>
--- End Quote ---
Think I’ve been fairly clear should you still have the
genitalia of a female you should play in a female team, and
viceversa, u til there is evidence that it causes no risk or
advantage
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