DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
ComeAllWithin (Harlequins Rugby)
HTML https://comeallwithin.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: ComeAllWithin Board
*****************************************************
#Post#: 93358--------------------------------------------------
Re: RFU Recommend Ban on TG Women
DIR By: SwindonQuin
Date: July 24, 2022, 11:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
It comes down to what is legally recognized, if your born male
and transition to female and, this is the key point, the
government recognised you legally as female then by the eyes of
the law you are female.
If the RFU or any club then choices to discriminate then they
bare the praise/criticism going forward.
I remember another time when it was asked 'should gay players
play rugby?' whilst I say YES their were and are still some who
say no. Homophobia is still an issue in rugby, no wonder
transphobia is an issue
What happened to all inclusive rugby?
#Post#: 93362--------------------------------------------------
Re: RFU Recommend Ban on TG Women
DIR By: Carbonm
Date: July 24, 2022, 1:38 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I agree with you on a lot on this, but I don’t know if this is
an example of transphobia, although I do agree it does exists
within in the game and throughout society.
I really think the RFU has wanted to be inclusive by letting
trans women play at grass roots level. Now they have done a
u-turn I guess only a court of law can decide if it is
discrimination. I don’t think this decision was taken lightly. I
feel for those players who have had the game taken away from
them but trying to take the emotion away from it the science
does appear to show that rugby can’t be all inclusive on this
issue sadly
#Post#: 93363--------------------------------------------------
Re: RFU Recommend Ban on TG Women
DIR By: DOK
Date: July 24, 2022, 1:56 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
There's more detail in the Grauniad report
HTML https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/jul/22/rfu-to-vote-on-banning-transgender-women-from-womens-rugby<br
/>on how the RFU came to it's decision, who it contacted in the
process etc... The decision is to have a vote, not an outright
decision.
#Post#: 93367--------------------------------------------------
Re: RFU Recommend Ban on TG Women
DIR By: QuincyJones
Date: July 25, 2022, 2:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: SwindonQuin link ---
>
> It comes down to what is legally recognized, if your born male
and transition to female and, this is the key point, the
government recognised you legally as female then by the eyes of
the law you are female.
>
> If the RFU or any club then choices to discriminate then they
bare the praise/criticism going forward.
>
> I remember another time when it was asked 'should gay players
play rugby?' whilst I say YES their were and are still some who
say no. Homophobia is still an issue in rugby, no wonder
transphobia is an issue
>
> What happened to all inclusive rugby?
>
--- End Quote ---
Well yes and no. Someone can be seen as female in the eyes of
the law after transitioning, but if they sleep with a man (with
the lights off I'd assume!) and don't disclose that they are
trans they can be prosecuted for ****. (Caught in the filter,
rhymes with 'ape'!)
So it's not one size fits all.
Yes, gay people playing rugby was once questioned but I think
that was to do with outdated attitudes rather than safety of
other participants.
#Post#: 93371--------------------------------------------------
Re: RFU Recommend Ban on TG Women
DIR By: MaidstoneQuin
Date: July 25, 2022, 4:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I am all for inclusivity, as it makes people feel accepted and
ultimately helps living a normal life without worrying about
being labelled.
However, we are talking about playing a physical contact sport
here. This isn't cricket or snooker.
As kids, its less of an issue because puberty hasn't hit.
However, it isn't transphobic to express concern about unfair
advantages someone transitioning can have.
Again, if a born male was transitioning, and had the relevant
hormone blockers from a young age actually its less of an issue.
However, If at the age of 32 I decided to become a woman, my
body has developed as a biological male, and that ultimately
means I probably will be bigger and stronger than another female
of my age. Not all the time of course, but science is science.
In the US a born male swimmer who was fairly bang average
competing as a male is now one of the leading female athletes.
HTML https://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/afl/afl-lawsuit-looms-as-transgender-footballer-hannah-mouncey-calls-out-new-aflw-policy-ng-b881771519z
This is something fairly similar. From the photos, there is a
clear advantage for strength and height. It's not about
victimising trans folk, but there has to be a fair balance with
competitive fairness.
Sadly I cannot see any immediate resolutions, as it isn't
feasible to have everyone on a case by case basis, but I'm not
put off worrying it might cause offence if it means there is a
fair level playing field with no advantages to anyone
transitioning, as also it could be fairly dangerous in some
cases.
#Post#: 93373--------------------------------------------------
Re: RFU Recommend Ban on TG Women
DIR By: Quinky
Date: July 25, 2022, 4:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Carbonm link ---
>
> I agree with you on a lot on this, but I don’t know if this is
an example of transphobia, although I do agree it does exists
within in the game and throughout society.
>
> I really think the RFU has wanted to be inclusive by letting
trans women play at grass roots level. Now they have done a
u-turn I guess only a court of law can decide if it is
discrimination. I don’t think this decision was taken lightly. I
feel for those players who have had the game taken away from
them but trying to take the emotion away from it the science
does appear to show that rugby can’t be all inclusive on this
issue sadly
>
--- End Quote ---
Who has had the game taken away? Isn't it the case that a "trans
woman" can still play on a men's team?
#Post#: 93394--------------------------------------------------
Re: RFU Recommend Ban on TG Women
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: July 25, 2022, 5:34 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> Who has had the game taken away? Isn't it the case that a
"trans woman" can still play on a men's team?
>
--- End Quote ---
Or even a trans woman. 😁
#Post#: 93408--------------------------------------------------
Re: RFU Recommend Ban on TG Women
DIR By: Adrian
Date: July 25, 2022, 8:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: MaidstoneQuin link ---
>
> I am all for inclusivity, as it makes people feel accepted and
ultimately helps living a normal life without worrying about
being labelled.
>
> However, we are talking about playing a physical contact sport
here. This isn't cricket or snooker.
>
> As kids, its less of an issue because puberty hasn't hit.
However, it isn't transphobic to express concern about unfair
advantages someone transitioning can have.
>
> Again, if a born male was transitioning, and had the relevant
hormone blockers from a young age actually its less of an issue.
However, If at the age of 32 I decided to become a woman, my
body has developed as a biological male, and that ultimately
means I probably will be bigger and stronger than another female
of my age. Not all the time of course, but science is science.
In the US a born male swimmer who was fairly bang average
competing as a male is now one of the leading female athletes.
>
>
HTML https://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/afl/afl-lawsuit-looms-as-transgender-footballer-hannah-mouncey-calls-out-new-aflw-policy-ng-b881771519z
>
> This is something fairly similar. From the photos, there is a
clear advantage for strength and height. It's not about
victimising trans folk, but there has to be a fair balance with
competitive fairness.
>
> Sadly I cannot see any immediate resolutions, as it isn't
feasible to have everyone on a case by case basis, but I'm not
put off worrying it might cause offence if it means there is a
fair level playing field with no advantages to anyone
transitioning, as also it could be fairly dangerous in some
cases.
>
--- End Quote ---
I don't fully buy into the biological male v female strength in
this contact sport argument. Rugby has a team of players with
differing sizes and strengths andcwith a trans women taking the
various hormone meds then they may not be stronger than a
biological female playing in the same position.
I may well be wrong, don't know what the science says just my
thoughts.
#Post#: 93409--------------------------------------------------
Re: RFU Recommend Ban on TG Women
DIR By: Carbonm
Date: July 25, 2022, 8:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> Who has had the game taken away? Isn't it the case that a
"trans woman" can still play on a men's team?
>
--- End Quote ---
I was referring to the 6 or so trans women who were playing
women’s rugby.
Trans men can play mens rugby subject to a risk assessment and
signing a waiver. It doesn’t mention trans women playing with
men but why would they want to play in the men’s team if they
identify as a woman?
#Post#: 93411--------------------------------------------------
Re: RFU Recommend Ban on TG Women
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: July 25, 2022, 8:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: AdrianB link ---
>
> I don't fully buy into the biological male v female strength
in this contact sport argument. Rugby has a team of players with
differing sizes and strengths andcwith a trans women taking the
various hormone meds then they may not be stronger than a
biological female playing in the same position.
> I may well be wrong, don't know what the science says just my
thoughts.
>
--- End Quote ---
You are wrong. Read the science. 😁
*****************************************************
Page 2 of 12
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page