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#Post#: 92545--------------------------------------------------
Re: The charge sheet against Eddie Jones and England - Charlie
Morgan
DIR By: Account_109
Date: July 4, 2022, 9:48 am
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--- Quote from: DOK link ---
>
> I've thought this for a while now. Harlequins were the same
when we started to convert to "the Harlequins way", with people
being fractionally misaligned, not supporting, leaving gaps,
Hail Mary passes, simple knock on because the receiver wasn't
expecting it etc...
>
--- End Quote ---
Totally agree. I don't think people quite realise that it takes
time for a team to settle into a new style, especially so at
international level where they spend relatively little time
together compared to club level.
--- Quote from: DOK link ---
>
> My worry is Eddie is going to say "This isn't working and we
haven't got time to make it work" (never mind he resolutely
refuses to pick players who might make it work). At that point
he's going to go back to kick and chase, which will be good
enough to get us to a quarter final or possibly semi final of
RWC but not a hope of winning it.
>
--- End Quote ---
I'm not worried about that. Even if things still aren't quite
right after the 2023 6N, Eddie will have the squad together for
about 3 months before the RWC itself. Though if you look at the
trajectory Ireland followed (bringing in a new system in the
2020 6N before peaking in Autumn 2021), given that England
started to really implement their current system in the 2022 6N,
you'd expect them to peak around the RWC. And personally, I
think the system Eddie Jones is trying to bring in has a much
higher ceiling than Ireland reached.
#Post#: 92548--------------------------------------------------
Re: The charge sheet against Eddie Jones and England - Charlie
Morgan
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: July 4, 2022, 1:10 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
It's an extremely generous article, and some extremely generous
comments above if you ask me.
Whether Eddie is going all in on this "new way" or the team are
just making too many errors is almost irrelevant - if he doesn't
start picking test class players in every position we might as
well not bother.
#Post#: 92550--------------------------------------------------
Re: The charge sheet against Eddie Jones and England - Charlie
Morgan
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: July 4, 2022, 2:25 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: RodneyRegis link ---
>
> It's an extremely generous article, and some extremely
generous comments above if you ask me.
>
> Whether Eddie is going all in on this "new way" or the team
are just making too many errors is almost irrelevant - if he
doesn't start picking test class players in every position we
might as well not bother.
>
--- End Quote ---
I follow Morgan on Twitter. He's frequently guilty of taking bog
standard moments from games and talking them up.
#Post#: 92551--------------------------------------------------
Re: The charge sheet against Eddie Jones and England - Charlie
Morgan
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: July 4, 2022, 2:26 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Account_109 link ---
>
> You're right, I totally forgot about him! However my
impression of him is that he's strong at slowing/stealing the
ball at the breakdown in defense, rather than clearing out
attacking rucks. Though I'm more than happy to be proven wrong
about that!
>
--- End Quote ---
It is harder to judge and the onus is on the team in general to
do that sort of thing, particularly the centres and front five.
#Post#: 92555--------------------------------------------------
Re: The charge sheet against Eddie Jones and England - Charlie
Morgan
DIR By: Yareet
Date: July 4, 2022, 5:15 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Account_109 link ---
>
> Totally agree. I don't think people quite realise that it
takes time for a team to settle into a new style, especially so
at international level where they spend relatively little time
together compared to club level.
> I'm not worried about that. Even if things still aren't quite
right after the 2023 6N, Eddie will have the squad together for
about 3 months before the RWC itself. Though if you look at the
trajectory Ireland followed (bringing in a new system in the
2020 6N before peaking in Autumn 2021), given that England
started to really implement their current system in the 2022 6N,
you'd expect them to peak around the RWC. And personally, I
think the system Eddie Jones is trying to bring in has a much
higher ceiling than Ireland reached.
>
--- End Quote ---
Completely this.
People seem to forget that 4 years ago we were losing a turgid
series against SA on the back of a dreadful 6N where we finished
5th.
Meanwhile, Ireland were securing a grand slam and beating NZ
later that year - much as France have done this year….
#Post#: 92556--------------------------------------------------
Re: The charge sheet against Eddie Jones and England - Charlie
Morgan
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: July 4, 2022, 5:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Gambling everything on a world cup is a brave move. Particularly
when everyone else simply tries to be the best they can be
before it happens.
I can't speak for other England fans but I'm not at all
interested in having a team that produces dire losing rugby 2-3
years out of 4 in the hope that in the 4th we might win a
tournament. The 6N matches matter. The autumn internationals
matter. The summer tours matter. Rugby isn't just about the
world cup and a side with the resources of England shouldn't be
having to sacrifice years of results.
#Post#: 92559--------------------------------------------------
Re: The charge sheet against Eddie Jones and England - Charlie
Morgan
DIR By: Fearless Fred
Date: July 4, 2022, 7:47 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
While I tend to agree with you, Jammy, EJ's mission as dictated
by the RFU is to try to win the RWC first and foremost. If that
means poorer performances in the 6N/AI/Tours, he's been given
leeway by his bosses to accept that as long as they are
convinced by the plan as he's explained it to them.
#Post#: 92560--------------------------------------------------
Re: The charge sheet against Eddie Jones and England - Charlie
Morgan
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: July 5, 2022, 1:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> Gambling everything on a world cup is a brave move.
Particularly when everyone else simply tries to be the best they
can be before it happens.
>
> I can't speak for other England fans but I'm not at all
interested in having a team that produces dire losing rugby 2-3
years out of 4 in the hope that in the 4th we might win a
tournament. The 6N matches matter. The autumn internationals
matter. The summer tours matter. Rugby isn't just about the
world cup and a side with the resources of England shouldn't be
having to sacrifice years of results.
>
--- End Quote ---
So much this. And it's not even a legitimate gamble. If you put
together a winning side which has the experience of repeatedly
beating its main rivals then they go into a tournament with
confidence and experience of winning. Even if you have the best
players with the most innovative gameplan (ed: we don't) you've
already shot yourself in the foot if they've been repeatedly
humiliated.
#Post#: 92576--------------------------------------------------
Re: The charge sheet against Eddie Jones and England - Charlie
Morgan
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: July 5, 2022, 6:10 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Fearless Fred link ---
>
> While I tend to agree with you, Jammy, EJ's mission as
dictated by the RFU is to try to win the RWC first and foremost.
If that means poorer performances in the 6N/AI/Tours, he's been
given leeway by his bosses to accept that as long as they are
convinced by the plan as he's explained it to them.
>
--- End Quote ---
I don't doubt it. It sucks, though :(
#Post#: 92601--------------------------------------------------
Re: The charge sheet against Eddie Jones and England - Charlie
Morgan
DIR By: MaidstoneQuin
Date: July 5, 2022, 12:49 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Nice to see our cricket team have had a huge change of fortunes
despite very little change in squad thanks to a coaching change.
The situation with the RFU/EJ reminds me a bit quins fans on
here not wanting to get rid of Gustard because there wasn’t any
stellar big names knocking around. We were proof that sometimes
a change is all you need and you shouldn’t look more than the
next game ahead.
Personally the RFU know it will cost them to get rid of Eddie,
and then get in someone good. It’s just a shame we are most
likely going to have to sit through what I think will be a poor
World Cup campaign to get the right result
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