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#Post#: 92523--------------------------------------------------
Re: The charge sheet against Eddie Jones and England - Charlie
Morgan
DIR By: Sketchley
Date: July 4, 2022, 3:29 am
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If you turn off JavaScript for the telegraph website it turns
off the pay wall.
#Post#: 92525--------------------------------------------------
Re: The charge sheet against Eddie Jones and England - Charlie
Morgan
DIR By: Camquin
Date: July 4, 2022, 4:02 am
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So why do England fall apart in the last quarter?
Are they not fit enough?
Are the replacements not good enough?
If so, why, given the playing base?
Are the replacements not being sent on at the right time?
Also, why don't top players know how to compete at a ruck?
It seems we have a generation of players who do not know what to
do with ball in hand.
Partly because of Eddie Jones and his initial success, the
Premiership clubs have concentrated on defence - and relied on
penalties to rack up points. Or if not directly from penalties,
driving mauls from line outs close to the line from a penalty
kicked to the corner.
But that only takes you so far.
If you cannot shut down an attacking side for 80 minutes, they
will score more points than you - as we at Quins know.
And as Ireland found against the All Blacks.
#Post#: 92530--------------------------------------------------
Re: The charge sheet against Eddie Jones and England - Charlie
Morgan
DIR By: MaidstoneQuin
Date: July 4, 2022, 4:47 am
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--- Quote from: Camquin link ---
>
> So why do England fall apart in the last quarter?
>
> Are they not fit enough?
> Are the replacements not good enough?
> If so, why, given the playing base?
> Are the replacements not being sent on at the right time?
>
> Also, why don't top players know how to compete at a ruck?
>
> It seems we have a generation of players who do not know what
to do with ball in hand.
> Partly because of Eddie Jones and his initial success, the
Premiership clubs have concentrated on defence - and relied on
penalties to rack up points. Or if not directly from penalties,
driving mauls from line outs close to the line from a penalty
kicked to the corner.
>
> But that only takes you so far.
> If you cannot shut down an attacking side for 80 minutes, they
will score more points than you - as we at Quins know.
> And as Ireland found against the All Blacks.
>
--- End Quote ---
I don't think fitness is an issue, although possibly maybe
fatigue could be an element looking at how EJ runs his camps
(With the more frequent Injuries?)
Subs wise he often leaves it too late in the game. I think had
Henry and Jack come on with 20/25 to go, it might of been more
beneficial considering their impact against a
tired/depleted/outnumbered Aus.
I think the main problem is the coaching, which started to fall
apart for EJ when Borthwick left. When its 15 vs 15, we do not
look like creating much. Our back 3 has no spark, and with
Farrell and Smith not having the desired effect, it was all very
stifled. I think EJ over complicates things and has a vision
which must be adhered to at all costs, which for a lot of the
players may go against their natural game (Smith). The kicking
approach hasn't worked for a while now, and our tries scored
column when its a 15 vs 15 affair is shocking.
The RFU is run like a gentlemans club, and I cant see them
getting rid of EJ even if its a 3-0 whitewash, and certainly
cannot see them investing in decent coaches in any case.
Personally, I've not seen anything from England to suggest we
are suddenly going to be a different team at the WC, so for the
long term a whitewash is probably the best result for England if
it makes EJ's position utterly untenable, as I still think
there's time to change things around in time for the RWC. This
approach didn't really go against France, who now its clear we
are years behind.
#Post#: 92531--------------------------------------------------
Re: The charge sheet against Eddie Jones and England - Charlie
Morgan
DIR By: Account_109
Date: July 4, 2022, 4:52 am
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--- Quote from: Camquin link ---
>
> So why do England fall apart in the last quarter?
>
--- End Quote ---
It's likely to do with a few factors, but I feel like
inexperience (both of players and gameplan) plays a major role.
To me, it seems reasonable that a team which is settled with its
patterns will do significantly better under fatigue than a team
which is still having teething issues with their system.
--- Quote from: Camquin link ---
>
> Also, why don't top players know how to compete at a ruck?
>
--- End Quote ---
Broadly speaking, there are two types of failed ruck clear outs
- you can fail to clear out a ruck due to poor technique, or
because you're not in the right position to affect the clear
out. For England, their lost rucks almost entirely fall into the
latter category, which is a sign that players are unfamiliar
with the system. That is the sort of thing I mean when I say
that England are having teething issues.
#Post#: 92533--------------------------------------------------
Re: The charge sheet against Eddie Jones and England - Charlie
Morgan
DIR By: poorfour
Date: July 4, 2022, 5:35 am
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I agree completely with Account_109.
Eddie is attempting a change in playing style that's more
radical than we've seen before and it's clear that the players
are still getting used to it. For me, in each game I see a
little bit more of the plan working well - for instance, on
Saturday England created more opportunities than they had in
previous games, but wasted a lot of them because the final
passes weren't good enough.
This often looked to be because they were between players in
unfamiliar positions - for example, Smith put one pass too close
to Steward which might have been OK if it had been a forward
coming onto the ball, and one that went past Itoje on the wing
but would have been fine for a back.
The breakdown issue is more confusing - Australia were happy to
make a mess of the breakdown and were allowed plenty of leeway
to be offside and interfering with play. England looked to be
trying to be squeaky clean - lots of arms in the air and slow
players. (I suspect they also suffered from not having Dombrandt
on the pitch - who has been one of the most effective England
players at the breakdown since he broke into the team; the back
row felt a bit unbalanced without him, for all that Billy played
pretty well).
#Post#: 92538--------------------------------------------------
Re: The charge sheet against Eddie Jones and England - Charlie
Morgan
DIR By: Account_109
Date: July 4, 2022, 7:34 am
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--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> (I suspect they also suffered from not having Dombrandt on the
pitch - who has been one of the most effective England players
at the breakdown since he broke into the team; the back row felt
a bit unbalanced without him, for all that Billy played pretty
well).
>
--- End Quote ---
I think losing Curry at half time (and now for the rest of the
series) played a role here as well. Ludlam is a great player,
but his strengths aren't at the breakdown in the same way that
Curry's are. Personally, my money is on Underhill to start the
next test with Ludlam staying on the bench, since without one of
Curry/Underhill/Dombrandt there isn't really anyone in our pack
that's particularly strong at the breakdown.
#Post#: 92539--------------------------------------------------
Re: The charge sheet against Eddie Jones and England - Charlie
Morgan
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: July 4, 2022, 7:35 am
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You're forgetting that Jack Willis is in the squad. He's
probably the best in the country at the breakdown.
#Post#: 92540--------------------------------------------------
Re: The charge sheet against Eddie Jones and England - Charlie
Morgan
DIR By: Account_109
Date: July 4, 2022, 7:48 am
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--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> You're forgetting that Jack Willis is in the squad. He's
probably the best in the country at the breakdown.
>
--- End Quote ---
You're right, I totally forgot about him! However my impression
of him is that he's strong at slowing/stealing the ball at the
breakdown in defense, rather than clearing out attacking rucks.
Though I'm more than happy to be proven wrong about that!
#Post#: 92541--------------------------------------------------
Re: The charge sheet against Eddie Jones and England - Charlie
Morgan
DIR By: tigerburnie
Date: July 4, 2022, 7:50 am
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The replacements scored more tries than the starters in the last
quarter, so not sure how anyone could say it was their fault,
for me the replacements lifted the tempo, they were just
deployed too late, the rest of the starters were blown by then.
One reason we lost that game, Skippy is not up to the job and is
well past his use by date.
#Post#: 92543--------------------------------------------------
Re: The charge sheet against Eddie Jones and England - Charlie
Morgan
DIR By: DOK
Date: July 4, 2022, 8:43 am
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--- Quote from: Account_109 link ---
>
> <snip>
> 2. England are a team that's transitioning from a gameplan
based on kick pressure to a gameplan based on breaking teams
down through phase play, as shown by England kicking 18 times
and passing 155, compared to Australia's tallies of 19 and 111,
respectively. This is down from an average of 27 kicks per game
against Australia from 2016-2021.
> <snip>
>
--- End Quote ---
I've thought this for a while now. Harlequins were the same when
we started to convert to "the Harlequins way", with people being
fractionally misaligned, not supporting, leaving gaps, Hail Mary
passes, simple knock on because the receiver wasn't expecting it
etc...
My worry is Eddie is going to say "This isn't working and we
haven't got time to make it work" (never mind he resolutely
refuses to pick players who might make it work). At that point
he's going to go back to kick and chase, which will be good
enough to get us to a quarter final or possibly semi final of
RWC but not a hope of winning it. Did you see the All Blacks?
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