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#Post#: 92152--------------------------------------------------
Re: England v Barbarians
DIR By: Account_109
Date: June 19, 2022, 3:56 pm
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--- Quote from: honkytonk link ---
>
> Let's be honest, Dombrandt seems pretty durable, but one week
with EJ and he is injured. The bloke has form.
>
--- End Quote ---
I'm not sure how fair it is to pass judgement on this particular
incident, given that none of us know exactly what happened. It
might have been due to EJ's training, or it might be a freak
accident that's just a risk of playing rugby.
Although in general I'm not convinced that the injury rate in
Eddie Jones' training camps is significantly higher than it is
at a club level - it seems reasonable to me that people would be
more likely to remember injuries on international duty since a)
it'll be one of the club's best players getting injured, and b)
there's a slight sense of injustice about it ("England took our
player away from us and then broke him, leaving us to deal with
the consequences!"). There's also an element of confirmation
bias about it, since the narrative of Eddie Jones breaking
players already exists, whenever a player gets injured with
England people are likely to immediately attribute it to Eddie
Jones' training methods, thus continuing the narrative.
Though I would like to stress that I'm not convinced either way,
I simply don't have access to the data to be able to see if
there is a real difference in the injury rate.
#Post#: 92153--------------------------------------------------
Re: England v Barbarians
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: June 19, 2022, 5:40 pm
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Arundell also got injured in camp, and it was noticeable how
many players took the field heavily strapped.
We looked uncoached, unprepared, and uninterested.
#Post#: 92155--------------------------------------------------
Re: England v Barbarians
DIR By: J Scott
Date: June 20, 2022, 1:20 am
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I agree with JG I think the game plan was chuck it to Smith see
what he can do.
There was a significant shift in structure when DC and Lawes
came on.
I think it really highlights how this is a pointless game in
modern rugby and one which could be axed to give players more
recovery time.
#Post#: 92156--------------------------------------------------
Re: England v Barbarians
DIR By: MaidstoneQuin
Date: June 20, 2022, 1:43 am
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I think at this stage anyone thinking England will do well at
the RWC is largely basing that off faith.
The team have the same problem as the football side. A wealth of
talented players, who at their clubs excel, but chucked into a
fairly rigid negative system they look ordinary (aka the last
several 6 nations).
None of the on the edge of things players coated themselves with
any glory. I think Marchant in particular will know he needs a
strong start to the premiership if he wants to stay in favour,
as I'm sure by then Farrell/Slade/Tuilagi if he is not injured
will be at the front of Eddies mind.
At this stage I'd be happy with Care Smith Farrell, as Atkinson
hardly made a case and I'm certain that's the last we will see
of him again. Care showed the importance yesterday of is
understanding with Marcus. Randall was average at best, but i
think the future is certainly Quirke or the other lad from
Tigers for SH. Being as there's no other candidates currently
around to take that 12 Jersey (Unless you include Slade) at
least having Owen's kicking is a bonus as I think we can agree
Marcus' goal kicking has been a bit unpredictable lately which
you wont want in a tight RWC match.
Also in general, BaBas looked much better, and they are a
scratch side! Why? The Edwards factor. Such a shame we never got
him on board.
#Post#: 92159--------------------------------------------------
Re: England v Barbarians
DIR By: poorfour
Date: June 20, 2022, 3:56 am
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An ambulance was pulling out of Twickenham as I arrived around
2pm - timing wise that suggests it had Dommers in it. I really
hope that's precautionary rather than a sign of something more
serious.
It was a pretty disappointing performance from England yesterday
- though I thought the scoreline flattered the BaaBaas a little
as so many of their tries came from interceptions.
England's attack was actually pretty good at making yards ball
in hand and Marcus was finding clever passes time and again -
the instant back pass to Cokanasiga under pressure stood out.
But the support play (Marchant claiming a crossfield kick with
no-one to back him up), decision making (Cokanasiga going inside
to Randall when a pass to Freeman would have left a 1 on 1
rather than a 1 on 2; May passing when a dummy would have let
him stroll in) and hands in the 22 (lost count of the number of
dropped balls) let them down over and over.
That said, I would rather be in that position than not be
creating chances. A lot of the mistakes were from players new to
or returning to international rugby (and fair play to the
BaaBaas, they came to play a proper game) after a long time out,
and are the sort of things that more experienced players will
make less often.
A big disappointment was that a back row with Curry and
Underhill was turned over as often as it was making turnovers. I
think they missed Dombrandt badly in that regard - and it may
point to why he is in favour when Billy (who's in good form ball
in hand but not quite at 80 minute fitness) and others aren't.
He's worked really hard on his fitness and these days does a lot
more of the unseen stuff off the ball, even if it means his
carrying is less frequent at international level.
I think off the back of this we can expect a tour much like the
South Africa tour in 2018 - some very tough games, swansongs for
a number of players and a number of newbies tried and discarded
never to return, but very possibly some green shoots at the end
of the series. Eddie's whole schtick is based on timing things
for the RWC, and he will be looking at that rather than the
scoreboard. The draw means that England can get through to the
knockout rounds without having to hit top gear, and it would be
very much in Eddie's mindset to sacrifice results between now
and the start of the tournament to be ready for those last three
games.
As an aside, the penalty try looked harsh from what we saw in
the ground. May genuinely looked like he was going for the
tackle rather than the ball (his hands were vertical and
pointing at the defender throughout) and the receiving player
had overrun the pass anyway. I think we have tipped too far in
terms of awarding a deliberate knock on for almost any contact
with the ball by a defender - I think an element of benefit of
the doubt needs to come back in when players are engaged in a
tackle (like May or Andre) rather than just getting in the way
of the pass.
#Post#: 92163--------------------------------------------------
Re: England v Barbarians
DIR By: Carbonm
Date: June 20, 2022, 4:20 am
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Agree with MaidstoneQuin, Care/Smith/Farrell is the best option
at the moment. I'm not a fan of Farrell but he has come back
into form, reads the game well, has good leadership qualities
and organisational skills. The coaches and players all rate him
and he's played for the Lions and got us to a World Cup final so
can't be completely rubbish :P
I do like Randell but not sure he's up to international level. I
wouldn't mind him at Quins actually with the way he plays and
I'm sure him and Smith could develop a good relationship but
agree again with Maidstone that Quirke/JVP (didn't realise he
was English until recently) look the best bets long term.
It's obvious that if Tuallagi is fit he plays, but that's
looking increasingly unlikely so what's plan B?Slade/Marchant?
Again I like Slade but he's another playmaker. Obivously I'm a
big fan of Marchant. I really don't want to see the likes of
Daly there (although happy for him to be on the bench to cover
most of the back line positions). Who else is there?
Cockasinga is an interesting one, Eddie obviously sees his
potential and she showed glimpses of what he can do yesterday.
Again, if he can have a good season then he could force his way
in given the lack of ball carriers in the back line.
#Post#: 92168--------------------------------------------------
Re: England v Barbarians
DIR By: poorfour
Date: June 20, 2022, 4:46 am
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Randall was the best of the SHs at feeding Smith decent ball
over the AIs and 6Ns, but had a poor game yesterday. He was
physically overwhelmed by the BaaBaas, and his passing was
faster than Youngs' would have been but frequently as
inaccurate.
Care looked much the better player... I think it's even possible
he could play himself into a starting berth. Eddie has said the
reason for selecting him was that the game has changed to favour
his style at the breakdown, and his game management has improved
(especially if he also has Farrell to vary the kicking).
Tuilagi should be viewed as a bonus if fit, and Cokanasiga is
clearly included to add a similar power game to the backline.
Slade is injured for the Aus tour, so it's a chance for Marchant
to cement a place in the squad (and I think he deserves it based
on recent performances).
#Post#: 92169--------------------------------------------------
Re: England v Barbarians
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: June 20, 2022, 4:52 am
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--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> An ambulance was pulling out of Twickenham as I arrived around
2pm - timing wise that suggests it had Dommers in it. I really
hope that's precautionary rather than a sign of something more
serious.
>
--- End Quote ---
There was a photo of him in the stands, knee in a brace,
crutches. Thanks Eddie.
Agree with the rest of your post except to say that I think
Billy is an 80 minute player but he got a bad head knock in the
final so might be out anyway.
#Post#: 92171--------------------------------------------------
Re: England v Barbarians
DIR By: poorfour
Date: June 20, 2022, 5:26 am
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That's a bit of a relief.
Billy was fading quite badly before the head knock, I thought.
He was really good for the first half and then less and less
influential as the second half wore on.
#Post#: 92177--------------------------------------------------
Re: England v Barbarians
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: June 20, 2022, 6:09 am
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--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> That's a bit of a relief.
>
> Billy was fading quite badly before the head knock, I thought.
He was really good for the first half and then less and less
influential as the second half wore on.
>
--- End Quote ---
He got the head knock as he was making a big carry into midfield
in the last ten minutes - they were using him a lot still. He
made a huge number of carries and a lot of tackles. Dombrandt
looked knackered at the end of the first half of the semi-final
and I don't think I'd say he's not an 80 minute player!
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