DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
ComeAllWithin (Harlequins Rugby)
HTML https://comeallwithin.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: ComeAllWithin Board
*****************************************************
#Post#: 86919--------------------------------------------------
Re: Prem Cup ‘smart’ rugby balls
DIR By: Quinten Poulsen
Date: March 21, 2022, 4:18 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Bayernquin link ---
>
> Treecko, thanks but the video causes more confusion, the ball
wasn't passed forward but travels forward, so it went forward,
regardless of intent, so infringement. The laws should prevent
forward movement of the ball to simplify calls and let everyone
watching see for themselves without slomo or magnifying glasses.
I think being stricter would cause players to be sure they were
passing back, resulting in steeper attacking lines, which would
hopefully create quicker passing and faster runners
receiving,giving us more of what we want to see.
>
--- End Quote ---
Please don't do this. Deadly has flogged it to death over the
years on here.
#Post#: 86920--------------------------------------------------
Re: Prem Cup ‘smart’ rugby balls
DIR By: Treecko
Date: March 21, 2022, 4:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Bayernquin link ---
>
> Treecko, thanks but the video causes more confusion, the ball
wasn't passed forward but travels forward, so it went forward,
regardless of intent, so infringement. The laws should prevent
forward movement of the ball to simplify calls and let everyone
watching see for themselves without slomo or magnifying glasses.
I think being stricter would cause players to be sure they were
passing back, resulting in steeper attacking lines, which would
hopefully create quicker passing and faster runners
receiving,giving us more of what we want to see.
>
--- End Quote ---
The point of the video is to show the distinction between passes
which are thrown forwards (illegal) and passes which travel
forwards (legal). And I don't see how making such a change to
the laws would speed up the game, since anyone running at pace
would have to practically turn around before making a pass in
order to guarantee it goes backwards rather than just being able
to pass the ball quickly. It would also mess up players' natural
support lines, and imo an attack which is playing to the line is
more exciting to watch than attack that's set deep and is
getting eaten alive by modern rush defenses.
#Post#: 86921--------------------------------------------------
Re: Prem Cup ‘smart’ rugby balls
DIR By: Ignoramus
Date: March 21, 2022, 4:39 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I believe there is a point here, namely that some forms of
technological intervention can reduce crowd/audience engagement.
In tennis serving, it is less of an issue, because it is nigh on
impossible for any person (that is not a super hero) to spot if
a serve was a cm or two out. But if people stopped whining and
shouting about forward passes it would be a bit of a shame IMO.
They only do that because they think a forward pass is something
you can see with your mince pies. If the forward pass law CAN be
one that is judged with the actual mince pies, I believe that
has some advantages for the spectacle of rugby. Also, training
players to pass might be a bit tricky if they think they cannot
make the right judgement using their eyes and are worried that a
technological intervention might finally trump their efforts.
Referees do seem to adopt both of - the ball was passed towards
the oppo try line from the hands, or the ball appeared to travel
backwards out of the hands. I am not quite sure why both seem to
be used.
#Post#: 86924--------------------------------------------------
Re: Prem Cup ‘smart’ rugby balls
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: March 21, 2022, 5:59 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I seriously cannot believe what is now being discussed. Again!
For the fiftieth time. Even though most people understand it,
and have done for years. Even though the laws are clear. Even
though the RFU issued a clarification back in the 60s (?) just
in case.
Why does this always happen. It’s not rocket surgery.
#Post#: 86925--------------------------------------------------
Re: Prem Cup ‘smart’ rugby balls
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: March 21, 2022, 6:12 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Bayernquin link ---
>
> Treecko, thanks but the video causes more confusion, the ball
wasn't passed forward but travels forward, so it went forward,
regardless of intent, so infringement. The laws should prevent
forward movement of the ball to simplify calls and let everyone
watching see for themselves without slomo or magnifying glasses.
I think being stricter would cause players to be sure they were
passing back, resulting in steeper attacking lines, which would
hopefully create quicker passing and faster runners
receiving,giving us more of what we want to see.
>
--- End Quote ---
I think you would be incredibly surprised at just what that
version of the sport would look like. It would also be
incredibly hard to officiate correctly. It would ruin the sport.
See this superb try?
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNixTohPDus
It'd be called back because you'd have the offload from Lewsey
judged to be "forward". In fact the vast majority of offloads at
pace would be forward.
#Post#: 86934--------------------------------------------------
Re: Prem Cup ‘smart’ rugby balls
DIR By: Mr_B
Date: March 22, 2022, 6:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
dont think you can just use acceleration as being discussed, you
could be running forward towards your own line and pass
backwards (actually a forward pass but totally legal), you also
have the ability to Kick the ball forward or even the act of
reaching out forward with your hand to place the ball on the try
line which if you just use accelerometer could be difficult to
distinguish accurately (not impossible). Combine accel with
pressure sensor and magnetometer you can measure rate of change
of accel plus height change and direction, would be doable. Its
all the events where the ball moving forward from the body
legally that you need to ignore thats the challenge.
#Post#: 86941--------------------------------------------------
Re: Prem Cup ‘smart’ rugby balls
DIR By: Camquin
Date: March 22, 2022, 8:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The law used to be simple, you could not pass the ball towards
the opposition dead ball line. There was an initially in there,
which used to mean that once the ball bounced, nobody could
guess where it went.
But of course, it was judged by a mark 1 eyeball, and it is easy
to appear backwards but still be forward with respect to the
grass, and all referees imposed the "clear and obvious" mantra.
Then that video came out, which does not prove that the law was
wrong, it merely proves how difficult it is to judge. But the
IRB wanted something they could give TMOs, so they invented the
"backwards out of the hands" rule, but did not actually say with
respect to what, but meant with respect to the runner.
So I believe the law is that it must not be thrown to move
faster towards then dead ball line than you are currently
running, unless you are running backwards - when it only needs
not to go forwards with respect to the grass.
That is certainly something you could program, but as other have
said, it would only be indicative, as the ball could have been
ripped, kicked, etc.
#Post#: 86948--------------------------------------------------
Re: Prem Cup ‘smart’ rugby balls
DIR By: never sleep
Date: March 22, 2022, 8:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Someone mentioned strong wind earlier.
But, you have always got the possibility that someone passes the
ball backwards and then the breeze catches it and pushes it
forwards.
It may seem an unlikely scenario - but, it could easily happen
on a long looping pass on a windy day.
This kind of anomality makes it difficult to program as you
would need accurate wind gust speed at all points of the
trajectory.
#Post#: 86950--------------------------------------------------
Re: Prem Cup ‘smart’ rugby balls
DIR By: Bolly-Quin
Date: March 22, 2022, 9:27 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I’d imagine that many fast spun passes will “beat” the wind, but
the long loopy ones may be affected by it, as lineouts are.
I’m not sure acceleration (other than gravity) is a big part in
this story - as BB says, the velocity will drop once it has been
passed: vectors are the way forward (ooops): the ball has to
have a “net” backward motion from the point of release, taking
in the vector of the passing player and that if the path of the
ball.
However, I may have got this wrong…
#Post#: 86958--------------------------------------------------
Re: Prem Cup ‘smart’ rugby balls
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: March 22, 2022, 10:39 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Bolly-Quin link ---
>
> I’d imagine that many fast spun passes will “beat” the wind,
but the long loopy ones may be affected by it, as lineouts are.
>
> I’m not sure acceleration (other than gravity) is a big part
in this story - as BB says, the velocity will drop once it has
been passed: vectors are the way forward (ooops): the ball has
to have a “net” backward motion from the point of release,
taking in the vector of the passing player and that if the path
of the ball.
>
> However, I may have got this wrong…
>
--- End Quote ---
I've back-tracked on this, though. 😁
As a player runs with the ball both have an identical forward
velocity vector component. If the forward velocity vector
component of the ball at the moment of passing is greater than
the player's then its a forward pass. And an increase in
velocity implies acceleration.
I think you're saying the same thing really but if you can
measure the forward acceleration vector component of the ball
you can ignore the forward velocity vector component of the
passer.
*****************************************************
Page 4 of 6
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page